The Complete Motown Singles
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Topic: The Complete Motown Singles
Posted By: Pat Downey
Subject: The Complete Motown Singles
Date Posted: 19 August 2008 at 7:13pm
|
The first contributor to the reviews of the Complete Motown Singles (Box Sets) has emailed me the contents of the latest volume which is Vol. 10 covering the year 1970. I have already entered this information in the database for those of you that are interested but I wanted to bring up several discrepencies between the data previously in the database and the information presented in the Complete Motown Singles Vol. 10 Box Set.
1) Jackson 5 "ABC". The database states the 45 length is (2:56) but the new box set has a (3:13) length???? 2) Edwin Starr "War". The database states this 45 runs (3:20) but it runs (3:27) on this box set?????? 3) Diana Ross "Ain't No Mountain High Enough". The database reports dj copies of this 45 run (6:18) and (3:28) but the box set reports a dj long version running (6:18) and a dj short version running (4:05)?????? Any comments on these discrepencies? |
Replies:
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 19 August 2008 at 7:36pm
| Well, first, if we're going to do this, then let's not get our wires crossed. I was already over half finished with Volume 10, which I announced here on the board two or three days ago that I was working on, and had planned to email it to Pat tonight when I get off work. Now I find out I wasted my time. |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 19 August 2008 at 8:54pm
On the off chance that there may have been a timing difference between the stock and DJ "War" 45, I just clocked the promo, but it, too, runs (3:20). Listed time is (3:12).
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Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 2:04am
It runs an actual 3:11, not 3:13. There are two seconds of silence at the end of the track. Don't know about the 45's running time.
I'm getting 3:26, but yes.
Yes. It lists it that particular DJ copy as Motown M1169, with the "Long Version" (actual 6:16) on the A side and the "Short Version" (actual 4:04) on the B side. It shows a photo of the A-side of the white label 45, which lists the run time as 6:10. The box set refers to the 3:29 version as "commercial version." But the text does say, "Several promo versions of the song were pressed. A radio edition with long and short cuts used the LP cover as a picture sleeve." It quotes writing on that sleeve that lists the long version as 6:00 and the short version as 3:15, and saying that it's the short version that will be in stores. |
Pat Downey wrote:Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 2:51am
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Okay, I'm working on "Vol 9: 1969" now, so if anyone else is doing that volume also, PLEASE let me know immediately so we don't duplicate each other's work.
Also, timings are supposed to be from the start of the music to the end of the music. From the tracks Pat posted here from the 1970 volume, it appears the running times listed are just the displayed track times, not the actual song running times. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 7:20pm
Absolutely... For anyone contributing run time info on these Motown sets, please make sure you're providing accurate times and not including any silence heard before or after the music. |
Posted By: Pat Downey
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 8:42pm
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I have just entered the information passed along by Brian for Volume 9 which brings up even more questions.
"Cloud Nine" by the Temptations is listed in the database as running (3:33) but shows up on this box set running (3:10)???? "Never Had A Dream Come True" by Stevie Wonder is included in the 1970 box running (3:10) but shows up in this box running (3:05). How can this song be included in both boxes with considerably different running times???? |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 20 August 2008 at 9:06pm
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I'll try to get some more info on those when I get off work tonight, Pat. It probably explains the two versions of the Stevie Wonder song in the booklet.
I'm just glad that, so far, the mistakes have been for songs where the proper 45 version is available on other CDs! |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 21 August 2008 at 1:55am
Oops! My mistake. The 3:10 version is Cloud Nine by Gladys Knight & the Pips, not the Temptations.
Okay, it says that the version in the 1969 set was originally slated as the A-side of Tamla 54188, but changed to "Yester-Me, Yester-You." It was held back and the different mix on the 1970 set was released later as Tamla T54191 A. But the notes still list the '69 mix as "Released on Tamla T54191 A, January 13, 1970," which is the same number and release date as the version on the 1970 set. So it SEEMS to say that both versions were available commercially. However, Motown promo 45s usually had the identical catalog number as their commercial counterparts. So it's unclear whether the '69 mix was just released promotionally, commercially, or whether it was even released at all and the notation of its catalog number and release are an error. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 21 August 2008 at 2:01am
People on the Steve Hoffman board have noticed this now, too. Someone noticed back on 8-14 that there was "no bass" on "ABC" (this was before anyone noticed the run time difference). He further elaborated, "There is a percussive beat that runs through the song, it sounds like a heavily compressed drumbeat. It's really the unique 'sound' that seperates the mono mix of 'ABC' from the stereo mix. On the version on the new Motown singles collection, this beat can barely be heard." Now someone has noted, "There is an extra repeat of the lines 'That's how easy love can be! I'm-a gonna teach you how to sing it out' with totally different phrasing that comes in at 2:39." |
Posted By: Pat Downey
Date Posted: 21 August 2008 at 5:36am
|
Brian, if you passed along the information on Cloud Nine by Gladys Knight by mistake then there must still be a version of Cloud Nine by the Temptations since it was a 1969 hit so could you please pass along the correct time for the Temptations version?
By the time I get all volumes of this Complete Motown Singles series entered in the database, this thread will be way too long so I will start a new thread for each box set in the future. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 21 August 2008 at 11:46am
But Temptations' "Cloud Nine" was RELEASED in late 1968, Pat. They go by release dates on these Motown sets, not the date they peaked on the charts. Therefore, "Cloud Nine" is on the 1968 set. |
Posted By: waldo
Date Posted: 22 August 2008 at 4:58am
that's definitely not the 45.. this version first appeared on the 1995 - Motown Year By Year - The Sound Of Young America - 1970 as an alternate rarity?? more mistakes!!!!!!! |
Posted By: waldo
Date Posted: 22 August 2008 at 5:59am
Brian, what CD's have the true ABC 45 ? |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 22 August 2008 at 7:11am
| The database shows Rare Earth's "Born to Wander" on the Complete Motown Singles Vol. 10: 1970 box set with the comment "stereo DJ 45 version". How does this stereo DJ 45 differ from the stereo commercial 45 length that has appeared on some CDs? |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 22 August 2008 at 8:35am
| Was the commercial 45 for "Born To Wander" mono and the DJ 45 stereo/mono or, just stereo? |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 22 August 2008 at 6:08pm
According to the database, it's on "Hitsville USA Vol. 1," "Kid Rock," and "The Best Of The Seventies: 20th Century Masters - The Millennium Collection." |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 24 August 2008 at 10:03pm
|
You know, looking over the top forty hits in the database that are on the "Complete Motown" sets, I'm surprised to see that, with exception of the Stevie Wonder material, most of these are already available on CD in their mono 45 versions.
They're still great for somebody like me who collects B-sides and loves the unreleased stuff (there are two scheduled-but-unreleased Supremes singles on the sets, for example), but for those who are interested mainly in the top 40 hits, there are literally only a handful of songs that are making their 45 version debut in this series. The mono Motown singles of the 60s were already very well represented on CD. |
Posted By: Pat Downey
Date Posted: 31 August 2008 at 1:12pm
| Thanks to Bill, Brian and Jim, the contents of "The Complete Motown Singles" first 10 box set volumes on Hip-O Select are now entered in the database for your viewing pleasure. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 24 September 2008 at 3:09pm
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I hope "The Complete Motown Singles" series isn't going to grind to a halt because of the Universal fire. Mastering engineer Marty Wekser has said on BSN that his sources at Universal tell him that thousands of tape masters were destroyed the Universal fire this year. Nearly 100% of the Decca and Coral tape masters from the 1950s were destroyed. He says anything that wasn't previously issued on LP or CD is just gone now.
I guess any little hope I had that Bear Family or someone else might do a boxed set for Bing Crosby's 1950s Decca material has been destroyed. The master tapes no longer exist. I don't know if any of the Motown tapes were stored there, but they were owned by Universal. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 24 September 2008 at 4:13pm
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According to Billboard.com, the fire did not destroy any masters that had not already been backed up or digitized. Furthermore, they report that most of the masters stored at that facility were moved to another location prior to the fire. Maybe Marty Wekser has insider info that Billboard is not reporting, though.
http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003810720 - Billboard article on Universal Fire |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 24 September 2008 at 5:09pm
That's what Universal claims, but it's apparently not true. Marty (who happens to live a few blocks from me -- I had lunch with him once) is in contact with the people who ran the vault at Universal, and it is they who told him that, while they don't know for sure everything that was lost, they're pretty positive that all the Decca and Coral tapes from the 1950s were destroyed. Here's my post at the Steve Hoffman site about it, which cobbles together some of Marty's posts from BSN. (You can also see my ugly mug on my avatar.) http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=3817818&postcount=27 - Universal fire |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 25 September 2008 at 1:54pm
|
Hmm, they locked the thread at Steve Hoffman forums and deleted all the posts. Interesting.
But the good news is Marty says none of the Motown masters were stored at Universal -- they're all on the east coast. |
Posted By: TomDiehl1
Date Posted: 25 September 2008 at 7:45pm
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Well, chances were, universal was never going to reissue 95% of the material in the vault that had not yet been reissued....so what is the loss, really? For years i had hoped for a "complete Ames Brothers on Coral and Decca" collection, but now i know that all i have to do is get one of the UK bootlegs with those songs, for that, as any US comp would have to now come from disc dubbed sources. Luckily 90+% of their Coral releases were available on 45's so reasonably sounding dubs could be done from those with the right equipment -- same with Bing Crosby, i have 45's by him dating back to 1950.... unfortunately the 1950's tape dubs of the laquers of his 1930's and 1940's masters are gone now too.....but there's so much of his that had never been on cd, too, and it's a real shame that it takes an event like this vault fire to wake up the record companies, or even just the fans. ------------- Live in stereo. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 25 September 2008 at 8:04pm
| Is there a release date for the 1971 Complete Motown Singles? |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 25 September 2008 at 8:11pm
Yes, I've thought that, too. But nonethless, little by little tracks would leak out -- people would license them for a compilation or whatever. Now, if Marty is correct, it's no longer even possible. For example, it was quite likely that Bear Family might have done a Volume 2 of their Red Foley Decca box set. Now, unless they were preparing it beforehand and already pulled all the tapes, it's not. |
Posted By: TomDiehl1
Date Posted: 26 September 2008 at 9:25am
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Well -- Universal has vaults in other places of the world, too -- and it's always possible that tape backups may reside in one of those other vaults, i believe they have one in Germany and one in France if i'm not mistaken, Bear Family used tapes from the German vault whenever possible, which is how they uncovered the 3-track stereo mix of Wooden Heart by Joe Dowell. ------------- Live in stereo. |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 19 October 2008 at 9:19am
I was looking on Amazon.com, and it's showing a date of 11/18/08. ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 19 October 2008 at 11:53am
Looks like 1971 might be in two volumes. It's not on Hip-O Select yet, but every Internet reference lists the title as "Vol. 11A." |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 19 October 2008 at 1:27pm
| Any indication at this point what the track listing might be? |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 19 October 2008 at 2:43pm
Haven't seen one. Frequently Hip-O doesn't post their upcoming releases on their site until a week or two before release. |
Posted By: Indy500
Date Posted: 20 October 2008 at 5:05am
| Has there been any official acknowledgment of the ABC screwup? |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 20 October 2008 at 10:24am
Not to my knowledge. |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 28 October 2008 at 9:06am
|
Track listing is supposedly here:
http://www.soulmusicstore.com/comosivo11a1.html - Vol. 11A Track Listing ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 28 October 2008 at 1:45pm
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Thanks, Doug! Interesting:
Diana Ross: Reach Out I'll Be There Reach Out I'll Be There (Long Stereo Promo Version) Reach Out I'll Be There (Short Stereo Promo Version) Reach Out I'll Be There (Mono Promo Version) I wonder why the mono promo version is on a separate disc from the rest. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 28 October 2008 at 6:53pm
| I was struck by the 'short promo version of Tom Clay's "What The World Needs Now." Wonder if this is the short promo that Jim mentioned he owned. And, we'll see the stereo promo of "Maybe Tomorrow" too. |
Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 28 October 2008 at 7:01pm
I have a promo single of this. Both the mono & stereo sides are shown as "short version" with a listed time of 5:19. I don't have the long version to compare it to. |
Posted By: waldo
Date Posted: 29 October 2008 at 5:20am
only one version of J5 'She's Good'.. hmmm as long as they issue the correct version i'll be fine. the true JERMAINE ONLY b-side as never been on CD. |
Posted By: waldo
Date Posted: 29 October 2008 at 5:23am
is this the short 3:19 version ? |
Posted By: waldo
Date Posted: 29 October 2008 at 5:32am
| duplicate |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 29 October 2008 at 8:36am
|
Hopefully!
I recreated the short edit in stereo some time ago after hearing the mono short edit. Would be nice to have the 'official' edit though. |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 29 October 2008 at 12:01pm
(label scans moved to the Tom Clay "What The World Needs.." thread.) It was nice to see that Motown actually forked over the extra coin to have both of these pressed in high quality vinyl at Columbia's Santa Maria plant. Even Motown must have known that to send such a long 45 to broadcasters on the usual cheap Motown cracklefest vinyl would have been an impediment to getting radio adds. |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 29 October 2008 at 12:22pm
And the reservice promo actually ran (5:19)? ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 29 October 2008 at 1:24pm
| I haven't played my copy of the edit since the '70s, but according to Jim, it runs (5:25). Here's the earlier http://www.top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=903&KW=tom+clay - Tom Clay thread. |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 18 November 2008 at 8:27am
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Just FYI--Vol. 11A hit iTunes (and I would assume other music services) today. While I have no way to verify if they didn't make any mistakes, the two tracks I bought (short version of Tom Clay and what I'm assuming is the commercial single of Diana Ross' "Reach Out I'll Be There") sound real good. ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 18 November 2008 at 12:49pm
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11A hit MusicGiants today, too, in WMA Lossess, for anyone who just wants a few tracks in CD-quality.
Strangely, it's still not listed on the Hip-O Select website, that I can see, but it is up for order elsewhere on the web and listed as available now. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 18 November 2008 at 12:54pm
| Something weird: the B-side of "Reach Out I'll Be There," which is "(They Long to Be) Close to You," is stereo on this set, while the A-side is mono. Is it this way on the vinyl single? |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 18 November 2008 at 1:14pm
| Brian, I have just pulled my commercial 45 for you, and the answer to your question is yes. The "Reach Out..." A-side is in mono, whereas the "live" version B-side, "...Close To You", is indeed in stereo on my 1971 single. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 18 November 2008 at 1:15pm
Thanks, Jim! |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 25 November 2008 at 9:35am
| Calling the Hip-O Select order # to try to order Vol. 11A, like I had done for all of the others, was unsuccessful this time; all they showed was Vols. 1 thru 10. So I went through Amazon instead, and received my 5-CD set today. Brian, let me know if you have already "guest reviewed" this new box for Pat already; otherwise, I will be happy to do the honors. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 25 November 2008 at 12:47pm
I actually haven't even ordered it yet, Jim, so feel free! (I know, I know, this volume was my "most wanted," but with Christmas coming up, I may delay it.) |
Posted By: waldo
Date Posted: 26 November 2008 at 8:03am
| Can someone please confirm if the correct single version of Mama's Pearl has been issued in Mono... i've read on another forum that they have used the different Third Album vocal take instead?, which make no sense as the correct vocal used for the single has been issued on two or three compilations albeit in stereo. they could have just taken that - "folding" it back to Mono. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 27 November 2008 at 9:38pm
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Three different people on the Steve Hoffman board now claim the version of "Mama's Pearl" on "Motown Singles 11A" does not match their 45s.
They'd better get this fixed, because I will NOT buy this set until it is. Anyone know how to contact Harry Weinger? |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 27 November 2008 at 10:19pm
| Brian, I can confirm that the correct 45 version of "Mama's Pearl" does NOT appear on the new Motown Singles Box, Vol. 11A - 1971. As Waldo has previously noted inside the specific "Mama's Pearl" thread, Tito's "bum-bum-bum-bum, etc.", which does appear on my 1971 45, but not on the LP version and serves as a "quick tip-off" to distinguish between the two mixes, despite the track appearing on the new box set in mono. I feel especially bad for you, Brian. For some time now, you have mentioned that "Mama's Pearl" may have been the ONE Motown song you most badly wanted the correct 45 version for, out of all of the label's total output - even more than our 1970, ultra-documented "Indiana Wants Me!" I guess Harry Weinger doesn't check the Board, Brian, or he would've known to make darn sure he got THAT one right! Especially when I just opened up the back cover of Vol. 11A, and I see only one thing: a pristine 45 picture sleeve photo for "Mama's Pearl!" Good luck getting hold of him; at a quick glance, I don't see an e-mail address for him readily pop up. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 28 November 2008 at 1:57am
|
Thanks for the confirmation, Jim.
But, believe me, I'll make sure that Disc One of this set is corrected. There have been at least two corrections on previous sets in this series. And there are people on the Steve Hoffman bulletin board who know how to get a hold of Harry Weinger. I'm going to start by sending an email to Hip-O Select tonight, and I'd encourage you to do the same. It's hipocrates@hip-oselect.com. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 28 November 2008 at 2:12pm
|
I got Harry Weinger's email address and just sent him a nice email. I will let you know his reply, if I get one.
I think it probably will be corrected. I know for a fact that "Shotgun" was corrected, because my copy of that volume (purchased several months after its release) has the gunshot effect on the intro. It was absent in initial pressings. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 11 February 2009 at 1:51pm
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I've just noticed that The Complete Motown Singles Vol. 9: 1969 (Box Set) does not have the short 3:25 commercial 45 version of the Temptations' "Runaway Child, Running Wild". This is one of the last remaining Motown 45 edits to have never appeared on CD.
By the way, does anyone know if Hip-O Select is planning to release a Complete Motown Singles box set for 1972, or is the series concluding with Volume 11B: 1971? |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 11 February 2009 at 1:58pm
Brian and Jim were discussing that briefly in the 11B thread. ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 11 February 2009 at 2:02pm
| Thanks, Doug. Evidently, I missed the discussion while I was away from the message board last week. |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 11 February 2009 at 3:03pm
|
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 11 February 2009 at 9:13pm
| The plan is to go through 1972, and it will be evaluated at that time whether or not to continue the series. I didn't hear that from Harry Weinger myself, but I read that he said that. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 12 February 2009 at 9:50am
| Thanks, guys. I'm pretty sure I had read somewhere there were going to be 12 volumes in this series, but I wasn't certain if the two 1971 sets were being counted as two separate volumes (which would make a total of 12 Complete Motown Singles box sets to date). |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 17 February 2009 at 2:48am
| I think the reason the original plan was to go through '72, Todd, is because '73 is the year they stopped issuing mono singles, for the most part. I think the goal was to get all those mono single mixes on CD. |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 13 August 2009 at 2:01pm
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Wasn't the 1971 - 11B set released in January of 2009? My guess is there won't be a 1972 set, unless it hits fourth quarter of this year (in time for the label's 50th anniversary). They'd have to split it into two sets (like they did for 1971). Since the mono box set "Hitsville USA, Vol. 1: Motown Singles Collection" ended at '71 I never expected Hiposelect to continue with the mono box sets much further. ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 13 August 2009 at 6:38pm
No, I just exchanged emails the other day with Bill Dahl, who wrote the liner notes. He assures me there will be a 1972A and 1972B. He's working on the liner notes for 1972B as we speak. The notes for 1972A are already finished. I would think they would tell him to stop working on the notes for 1972B if the series had been canceled. (Though he had no knowledge of and nothing to say about the wrong mixes being used on previous volumes.) |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 13 August 2009 at 8:02pm
| Thanks very much for the Vols. 12A & 12B updates, Brian! |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 14 August 2009 at 9:02am
| Yes, I spoke to someone who works in the reissue department at Motown/Universal less than a month ago, and he told me that 1972 is definitely coming out; and then they're taking a break from the series - if they continue on with 1973 it will happen much further down the road. |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 14 August 2009 at 9:03am
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I'm happy to hear that Brian. I look forward to getting the single version of Stevie Wonder's "Superwoman." Does Bill have an idea when the box sets will be released? ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 14 August 2009 at 10:51am
He didn't know; he just said "soon." |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 10:41am
Found this post on the Steve Hoffman board:
|
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 7:15pm
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Guess 2010 will end without the release of the final volumes of this series (Volume 12A & 12B: 1972). Hard to believe it has taken this long to resolve some licensing issue(s). ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 05 November 2013 at 8:11pm
|
Volume 10 covering 1970 includes an alternate mix of the
song "The Love I Saw In You Was Just A Mirage" by Smokey Robinson & The Miracles. Pat does not currently list it in the online database, but for anyone who might be interested, it was issued on some pressings as the b-side to "The Tears Of A Clown." ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |