45 versions that are really "45 lengths"
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Topic: 45 versions that are really "45 lengths"
Posted By: EdisonLite
Subject: 45 versions that are really "45 lengths"
Date Posted: 01 January 2009 at 10:11pm
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There has been a topic in another post recently about "45 lengths" that Pat chooses to list as "45 versions". These 45s are simply early fades, nothing more - like any other single with a "45 length" designation. A lot of us have expressed interest in having consistency with labeling "45 length" on any single that is simply faded earlier than its album counterpart, whether it's faded 20 seconds early, 3 minutes early, doesn't include a key change that occurs after the fade, or doesn't include a unique vocal (or vocalist) that occurs after the fade, etc. So I propose we use this particular post and update the list of "45 versions" that are actually "45 lengths", since it's unlikely that the database will be modified to list all early fades for "45 lengths". The reason for this is not to be nitpicky or to pick on Pat's decision, but many of us want to know when we already have CDs in our collection and we can simply fade to the right point in order to obtain the 45. I'd like to suggest we update this list and keep it alphabetical so that anyone wanting to know about a 45 length that is listed in the database as a 45 version can simply come here and easily find it. Here are the 3 songs that we discussed in the other post I mentioned (alphabetically by title):
"Abracadabra" - Steve Miller Band "Slow Dancin' Don't Turn Me On" - Addrisi Brothers "We Are the World" - USA for Africa If anyone knows of additional songs, please add them to the list. Thanks. |
Replies:
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 01 January 2009 at 11:18pm
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"I Want To Take You Higher" - Sly & The Family Stone
"Neanderthal Man" - Hotlegs (Actually, the LP is an early fade of the 45 in this case.) "Slow Ride" - Foghat |
Posted By: Paul C
Date Posted: 02 January 2009 at 6:22am
| At issue here are songs for which the 45 version is simply an early fade of the LP version but for which the LP version (because of additional lyrics, different music, etc., occurring after the point of the 45 fadeout) are not simply extensions of the 45 version. What might be a not-too-burdensome addition to the database would be to add a notation under the title of such a song that the 45 version is an early fade of the LP version while maintaining the current 45 version / LP version designation for each CD on which the song appears. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 02 January 2009 at 6:46am
| I agree with Paul that adding such a notation would be extremely helpful if the designators are to remain the same. In the unique case of "Neanderthal Man" (which is technically the reverse of what we're discussing on this thread), Pat has already noted this after the song title. |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 02 January 2009 at 8:15am
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"I'll Take You There" - Staple Singers
"Superwoman (Where Were You When I Needed You)" - Stevie Wonder I'd still minorly quibble with "Abracadabra," given that the 45 is a faster pitch than the LP. ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 02 January 2009 at 8:46am
| Would it also be helpful if the beginning point of the fade was listed? I'd imagine that might be an impossible request, but to create a proper 45 length, wouldn't one need the parameter of the fade? |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 02 January 2009 at 8:48am
| Edited: Already listed in the db as 'length' |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 02 January 2009 at 8:50am
| Even better, if there was a way in doing a database search, if the term '45 length' could be a searchable term? That might save a ton of work updating individual entries. Thoughts? |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 02 January 2009 at 9:41am
Good additions, John and Doug.
I'm sure Pat has access to searching for just about anything in his master database where he makes all the changes. Even if we were able to search for "45 length," it still wouldn't pull up the songs in question, as they are labeled "45 version." |
eriejwg wrote:Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 02 January 2009 at 9:51am
The single of this is not simply an early fade of the album, there is part of the chorus that's sung more slowly on the album that was edited out of the 45. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 02 January 2009 at 10:20am
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And also,
"It Never Rains In Southern California" - Albert Hammond "I'll Meet You Halfway" - Partridge Family "Long Cool Woman (In A Black Dress) - Hollies Pat doesn't incorrectly list these as 45 versions. As for Albert Hammond, while he doesn't give any designations for each individual CD, in his description below the title he refers to the "LP length". So that one's fine, too. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 02 January 2009 at 10:25am
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OK, here's an updated list of 45s listed as "45 versions" but are actually "45 lengths". I've noted the one pitch alteration. The list is alphabetical by title. From time to time, I'll try to compile an updated list where everything's all in one post (although I suppose any one of us could do it). It'll easier for people to look up the songs in question this way.
"Abracadabra" - Steve Miller Band (but faster pitch than LP) "Do I Have To Say the Words" - Bryan Adams "Everything I Do (I Do It For You)" - Bryan Adams "Hard To Say I'm Sorry" - Chicago "I Want To Take You Higher" - Sly & The Family Stone "I'll Take You There" - Staple Singers "Neanderthal Man" - Hotlegs (Actually, the LP is an early fade of the 45 in this case.) "Slow Dancin' Don't Turn Me On" - Addrisi Brothers "Slow Ride" - Foghat "Superwoman (Where Were You When I Needed You)" - Stevie Wonder "We Are the World" - USA for Africa |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 02 January 2009 at 10:32am
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Note: I added 2 Bryan Adams titles to the list, as they are listed as "versions" but simply are fades. In both cases, as I recall, there are long instrumentals after the fade outs, which must be why Pat doesn't consider these early fades.
I added the Chicago title for the same reason. In this case, Pat lists that the song does go into "Get Away", but he still uses the word "version" to describe this song, when a simple fade of the LP will yield the proper "45 length." |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 02 January 2009 at 10:46am
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I wasn't basing my list on how they were already listed in the database, rather based on the title of this thread.
:) I'll delete the list if they're already listed as length. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 02 January 2009 at 4:06pm
| Thanks for taking the initiative to compile this list, Gordon. It will be a big help to those of us who subscribe to the belief that if two recordings are identical but one fades earlier than the other, then it's an issue of "length" regardless of what circumstances occur during the remainder of the longer recording. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 11 January 2009 at 8:31am
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Here's one more for the list, Gordon...
"I Love Music (Part 1)" - The O'Jays |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 11 January 2009 at 12:20pm
Nope. There is an edit on the 45. ------------- |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 11 January 2009 at 1:59pm
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I stand corrected, but where is the edit? Song sounded the same to me, just longer. ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 11 January 2009 at 3:57pm
It's a bit tricky to hear because the edit comes at 3:00 during the 45 fadeout. On the LP version, there is no fadeout at that point. So, it seems that they did the edit first, then faded it out appropriately. Both the 45 and the LP versions have very long fadeouts, which confuses things if you don't listen carefully. ------------- |
Posted By: Jody Thornton
Date Posted: 14 January 2009 at 8:09pm
Also "Elvira" by the Oak Ridge Boys. ------------- Cheers, Jody Thornton (Richmond Hill, Ontario) |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 15 January 2009 at 12:26pm
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Since there's already been 2 additions and 1 deletion since my last compiled list, here's the modified one to use as a basis:
"Abracadabra" - Steve Miller Band (but faster pitch than LP) "Do I Have To Say the Words" - Bryan Adams "Elvira" - the Oak Ridge Boys "Everything I Do (I Do It For You)" - Bryan Adams "Hard To Say I'm Sorry" - Chicago "I Love Music (Part 1)" - The O'Jays "I Want To Take You Higher" - Sly & The Family Stone "Neanderthal Man" - Hotlegs (Actually, the LP is an early fade of the 45 in this case.) "Slow Dancin' Don't Turn Me On" - Addrisi Brothers "Slow Ride" - Foghat "Superwoman (Where Were You When I Needed You)" - Stevie Wonder "We Are the World" - USA for Africa |
Posted By: davidclark
Date Posted: 16 October 2009 at 6:57am
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regarding "Abracadabra", I timed the LP version on the box with the version
on the Time-Life Sounds of the Eighties 1980-1982 CD and they run the same speed up until the 45 fades, yet it is indicated here that the 45 runs faster. The database also has 45 version indicated for the song. EdisonLite, are you able to confirm that the 45 runs faster with an a-b test? If so, then the database entry for at least the Time-Life CD (and probably others) needs updating. ------------- dc1 |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 16 October 2009 at 12:37pm
| David, that was a list I compiled from everyone's contributions previously mentioned in the post. About 6 of the songs are actually my contributions, but "Abracadabra" was someone else's contribution to the list, so I don't know the answer. |
Posted By: davidclark
Date Posted: 16 October 2009 at 12:58pm
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ahh yes, it came from our very own Doug (sriv94). Can Doug chime in here? ------------- dc1 |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 16 October 2009 at 6:50pm
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Consider me chimed.
The one LP version I have (from the Capitol Records 60th set) matches the pitch of the 45 version I have (from the Rhino Big 80s disc). I distinctly remember the song being just a bit slower when I heard it on WLS in Chicago (they used the LP version while WBBM-FM used the 45 version). It is possible they slowed the song down when carting it, or there was a promo that had a slower-than-the-LP version on it. (Now that I think about it, they made their own edit of the LP version, stripping the "Ev'ry time" verse and the first "Abracadabra" chorus, so the song ran shorter than the LP version but much longer than the 45.) Or I'm completely bonkers. (Which has nothing to do with this discussion.) ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 17 October 2009 at 8:59am
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To Doug:
Most likely WLS played the first 12" promo which meets your description. The promo was first released to AOR before the album was released. I don't remember the exact time, but I believe it was labeled 4:37. I no longer own this promo, but I think it was SPRO-9797. After the album was released, a new AOR promo was issued with the correct album version (labeled 5:10) SPRO-9816. Andy |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 17 October 2009 at 9:54am
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Thank you for the knowledge, Andy. That's pretty impressive recall. ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |