December, 1963 (Oh, What A Night)
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URL: https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4572
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Topic: December, 1963 (Oh, What A Night)
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Subject: December, 1963 (Oh, What A Night)
Date Posted: 09 February 2009 at 7:54am
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Hi People,
Does anyone know if the single mix of the Four Seasons "December, 1963 (Oh, What A Night)" has made it to CD or digital download yet? As those that own the original 45 know, there is flanging on the background vocal 'aahs' during the 'Oh, I got a funny feeling' parts of the record that are not on the LP mix. Any help? Andy |
Replies:
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 09 February 2009 at 9:47am
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Andy:
Are you referring to the original 1976 version or the 1994 remix? |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 09 February 2009 at 9:57pm
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To Todd:
The 1975/1976 #1 hit version (it's a remix & earlier fade of the 'Who Loves You' LP version). Andy |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 09 February 2009 at 10:14pm
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That's interesting. I never knew there was a difference in the mix on "December, 1963." Do any of the Rhino discs that run 3:18-ish have the right version?
Also, speaking of "Who Loves You," what's with the horrible "swishy" out-of-phase sound? Was it intended to sound like that? |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 7:44am
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To Aaron:
Answer to 1st question: Nah, they're just improperly early-faded LP mixes. Answer to 2nd question: Yes. Andy |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 9:15am
| Thanks, Andy. That saves me from picking up one of the improperly faded versions. Also, I kind of suspected the phasing thing on "Who Loves You" was intentional, because it doesn't sound like there is a problem with the vocals being "swishy." Does anyone know the story behind that? |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 9:49am
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aaronk wrote:Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 9:51am
I think it was a mercifully short-lived trend in the late '70s to put a phasing effect on the hi-hat. Some examples that spring to mind are the O'Jays' "For The Love Of Money", Heatwave's "The Groove Line", and EWF's "Shining Star". One '90s song that did that, most likely as a throwback to the '70s style of the song, is Simply Red's "Something Got Me Started". I was never a fan of that particular effect. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 10:33am
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Have other people checked their "December 1963" 45s to see if it has 'phlanging aahs' on the "I got a funny feeling" parts. I wonder if there were 2 pressings of this 45, especially since no one's noticed this before now.
Also - Andy, is that the only mix difference between the 2 versions? And Pat, have you confirmed if ANY CDs contain the single mix? |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 12:15pm
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To EdisonLite:
It's probably not the 'only mix difference' but it's the most blatantly obvious. This type of minor difference would normally not faze me (bad pun intended) but at the time it was one of my most favorite records and (despite it's overplayed status) it certainly was a well written & produced record & I would like to track down a digital dub of the version that I bought, was played & went to #1. Andy |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 12:34pm
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Hey, I just found one other (minor) difference.
The LP version during the instrumental passage right before the 2nd 'Oh I, got a funny feeling' has the wah-wah guitar & the congas panned somewhat to the same side in the stereo positioning where the single mix has the congas somewhat to one side & the wah-wah guitar to the other side of the stereo spectrum. Andy |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 12:36pm
| Deleted. |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 6:09pm
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Both the mono and stereo sides of the DJ 45 match the flanging on the commercial copies that I have.
John, yes, the flanging is only on the aahs over the "when walked in the room..." parts. Not sure whether or not that makes them funnier, but there you are. :) Andy, great call!! |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 8:14pm
| Deleted |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 8:46pm
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To Yah Shure:
Thanks for officially confirming that the mono/stereo DJ promo also has the flanged version (I only own the commercial release). The flanged version was the only version I heard on the radio, AM mono & FM stereo back in early 1976. Andy |
Posted By: Roscoe
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 9:21pm
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I just checked all the CDs I own with this song:
(3:26) Curb 77317 70's Hits Volume 1 (3:31) Razor & Tie 7076 Super '70s (3:16) Rhino 71490 Anthology (3:33) Rhino 70595 Greatest Hits Volume 2 (3:33) Time-Life R840-06 Sounds Of The Seventies: '70s Dance Party 1975-1976 (3:32) Rhino 72919 Have A Nice Decade - The '70s Pop Culture Box (3:19) Rhino 74494 Very Best Of Frankie Valli And The Four Seasons Using the guide noted above with the mixing of the wah-wah guitar and congas, all of the above CDs contain the LP mix. Now this makes me want to hear the true 45 mix. I have a sinking feeling that the true 45 mix is not on any of the domestic CD appearances, but I hope I'm wrong. Amazing that this difference is only now coming to light, given how big a hit this was and the thoroughness of the members here. I did find one missing database notation in this process, though. The following CD: Curb 77317 70's Hits Volume 1 contains the godawful remix with the additional synth drums, probably the same as Curb 77304 Hits Digitally Enhanced. This should be noted in the database. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 9:43pm
That remix is the one done by Dutch DJ Ben Liebrand, which became a hit in 1994. Those two discs should probably be listed under the 1994 database entry. Until today, I did not realize that the remixed version had actually been released in 1988, which explains why it shows up on a disc released in 1990. If my memory serves me right, the reason it became a hit in 1994 is because John Garabedian started spinning it frequently on Open House Party. |
Posted By: TomDiehl1
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 9:47pm
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I was a 9 year old kid in 1994 when the remix version got released, at the time i still listened to top 40 radio alongside oldies...and I loved it.
I was so happy to finally get a copy of the track over 10 years later, having never heard it in between the time it was a hit and the time I got the track. I had no idea it was actually from 1988....but it reminds me of the synth remix of Big Girls Don't Cry by the Four Seasons, as well as the remix of Do You Love Me by the Contours.... ------------- Live in stereo. |
Posted By: Steve Sharp
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 10:30pm
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Ben Liebrand has resurrected a few hits, via his remixes (although not everyone likes them):
Hot Chocolate "You Sexy Thing" Bill Withers "Lovely Day" If you heard the LP version of "Let's Talk About Sex" Salt-N-Pepa, before Ben Liebrand reproduced the entire track, based on a melody from "I'll Take You There" Staple Singers, you wouldn't recognize it. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 10:32pm
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I guess this is old news now but I analyzed the 3:18 length of "December, 1963 (Oh, What a Night)" on the Very Best of CD (Rhino 74494) to see if it has the 45 mix and, as Roscoe and others have confirmed, it's the LP mix faded early.
So it's looking like each database CD appearance of the song should have an "LP mix" or "LP version" comment (or "LP mix/version faded :XX early" in cases like the Very Best of disc). |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 17 February 2009 at 3:00pm
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Until I picked up a copy of the 45, I couldn't quite understand the difference. Now, after dubbing my 45, I do hear the mix differences. Listed and actual time is 3:21.
Deadwax is WBS 8168 (TCA5709)S. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 17 February 2009 at 4:11pm
| What's interesting is that Rhino and Bill Inglot have a reputation for picking the singles master tapes for compilation CDs, and I'm just surprised they never checked the single mix on this song to see if it was different. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 17 February 2009 at 4:12pm
| BTW, this past week, XM aired a 1976 AT40 show that included "December 1963". I was hoping that the version they had chosen to use would be the actual 45 -- but I listened to the spot in question and didn't hear anything different than what I already know, so I guess even AT40 pulled it off the LP back then. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 17 February 2009 at 4:13pm
| BTW, has anyone seen Bill Inglot's name show up as sound producer on any other labels' releases since Rhino fired him a few years ago? |
Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 17 February 2009 at 4:51pm
AT40 used the album quite often at least in the 70s. I recall one instance where a song dovetailed into the next track on the album, they let a second or so of the next song before they quickly faded it down. It was one of the hits from Linda Ronstadt's "Heart Like A Wheel" album, "When Will I Be Loved" I think. I thought that was odd since even back then Casey just cut his voicetracks & a producer put the show together. |
Posted By: jono
Date Posted: 18 February 2009 at 9:34am
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OK, for awhile I was having trouble discerning the 45/LP mix differences, but I think I know why. I was comparing my 45 with the version found on the "Jersey Beat" box set, which HAS that background "flanging". My "Frankie Valli & The 4 Seasons 25th Anniversary Box Set" does NOT have that effect on the background vocals.
I'm also getting the "Wah-Wah" guitar on the right channel, congas on left on the "Jersey Beat" box version instead of both the "Wah-Wah" & congas on the left channel on "25th Anniversary". Based on this info, it seems like the 45 version, although LP length, is on the "Jersey Beat" box set. I think. Does anyone else have the box set that could verify? Thanks! Jon O. |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 18 February 2009 at 10:12am
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To Jon O:
I think you've found it!! I don't own 'Jersey Beat'; I'll track it down. To EdisonLite: Shannon Lynn, responsible for restoring the AT-40 broadcasts, ofentimes inserts commonly available CD versions of songs for better sound quality to the general public (without 100% regard to matching the version Casey played originally). Andy |
Posted By: jono
Date Posted: 18 February 2009 at 10:24am
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Andy -
I just noticed iTunes, for one, has a 30 second sample which (fortunately) includes the background vocals in question. Jon O. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 18 February 2009 at 11:25am
| To Andrew C: Very interesting. I had no idea someone was swapping music sources on the restored AT40's. But I have a big question. On 99% of the songs, Casey spoke over the intros (except when the vocals started cold), and also over the endings. So how did she insert the new versions? It seems like an edit from the LP to a new CD source would be weird, especially going back to the talking at the end of the song. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 18 February 2009 at 11:32am
| I checked the database and Pat lists this as "LP mix", and presumably when he made all these updates to the database, he listened to each CD. So can Pat (or someone else with the box set) verify the single mix is here? |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 18 February 2009 at 12:58pm
| I just grabbed the track from the CD in question via Napster. I matched the fade to the 45 I got in yesterday and have a wav file I'll send. |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 18 February 2009 at 2:10pm
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To EdisonLite:
Shannon Lynn's edit points are frequently right at the end & beginning of Casey's monologue (which makes the edits less noticable). Sometimes a crossfade is done. Sometimes it's at a post. Listen carefully to some of the early 70s shows and you will find channels reversing, mono editing into stereo, pitch differences, et al. Andy |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 18 February 2009 at 8:22pm
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Andrew reports back to me that the version on Jersey Beat is indeed the 'hit' 45 version, albeit a bit longer.
I also had to slow the digital copy from Napster I bought to 99% to match the 45. |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 27 February 2011 at 7:46am
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The discovery of the 45 mix for this track was made over two years ago (prior to the Rhino Digital 45 series release). ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 27 February 2011 at 3:25pm
Pth! I can give you scores of examples of where they never got it right. ------------- |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 29 January 2012 at 11:24am
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bumping this up for Ed... ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: SoCalDrew
Date Posted: 29 January 2012 at 1:02pm
LOL That might make a good thread! |
Posted By: prisdeej
Date Posted: 01 February 2012 at 4:33pm
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Is the digital 45 on the Rhino site the actual 45 mix? ------------- DJ L. |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 01 February 2012 at 4:40pm
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As long as it's from the Jersey Beat Rhino box set. That's the only place the correct 45 version appears. ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 13 August 2012 at 5:50pm
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can someone tell me at what point in the song, time wise,
are the flanges and the congas most noticeable? ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 13 August 2012 at 8:12pm
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The flanging is on the background vocals when Frankie sings "Oh, I got a funny feeling when she walks in the room..." ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 14 August 2016 at 9:47am
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I don't have the 1976 (LP) version on every CD listed in the database, but I'll detail what I do have:
The version on Warner Special Products' 2-CD Good Times (1991) sounds just OK. The same analog transfer is used for Warner Special Products's 2-CD 40 Summer Fun Hits (1993). Bill Inglot did a much better analog transfer for Rhino's Four Seasons Greatest Hits Vol. 2 (1991). The same analog transfer is used for:
------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 15 August 2016 at 10:39pm
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The single version Aaron mentions can be found as a
lossless digital download on Pono, and the mp3 everywhere else. However, currently, Pono is switching distribution, so the store is off-line. ------------- |
Posted By: VWestlife
Date Posted: 16 November 2020 at 9:35am
I swear I've heard a mix of "Who Loves You" with two separate hi-hats in the left and right channels, slightly out of sync with each other. The "swishy" effect sounds like the result of combining these together to the center of the stereo image. Could the mix I heard be a quadraphonic version? 1975 was quite late for quad, but it's possible. Or maybe a dedicated 8-track/cassette mix? It's very difficult for vinyl to achieve good stereo separation at high frequencies, but tape doesn't have that problem, so maybe they only mixed the hi-hats together to mono for the LP/45 release. |
Posted By: C J Brown
Date Posted: 16 November 2020 at 5:28pm
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Perhaps you heard the "disco" mix of the record? I am not
even sure if the hi hat effects you mention are in that mix. I will have to some deep digging and listen soon. |
Posted By: Edoz
Date Posted: 17 November 2020 at 3:32pm
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I had the Jersey Beat box set and returned it, because one (can't remember which) of the discs wouldn't play.
|
Posted By: LunarLaugh
Date Posted: 17 November 2020 at 10:06pm
What you describe sounds like the mix used on the "HITS DIGITALLY ENHANCED" collection from the late 80s. http://tinyurl.com/y4jphx5z - Here's a link. ------------- https://thelunarlaugh.bandcamp.com/ - Listen to The Lunar Laugh! |
Posted By: VWestlife
Date Posted: 20 November 2020 at 7:41am
Thanks -- that's it! |