"Sky High" - Jigsaw
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Topic: "Sky High" - Jigsaw
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Subject: "Sky High" - Jigsaw
Date Posted: 02 May 2009 at 6:14pm
| According to Jim, his commercial 45 copy of Jigsaw's "Sky High" has an actual and printed run time of 2:53. I only post this because the song's database CDs (with the exception of the lone rerecording entry) run 2:46-2:52. |
Replies:
Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 02 May 2009 at 6:28pm
| On Rhino's Have A Nice Day CD the intro was shortened to cue past the synthesizer fade-up. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 05 May 2009 at 8:45pm
|
You've made an interesting observation, Hykker, because I just compared "Sky High" on the following CDs:
Billboard Top Hits - 1975 (Rhino 70670) Super Hits of the 70's Volume 15 (Rhino 70762) Rock 'n Roll Relix 1974-1975 (Eclipse Music Group 64894) The intro starts cold on the Rock 'n Roll Relix disc, yet it fades in on the Billboard and Super Hits of the 70's CDs. Meanwhile, the song's ending on the latter two discs fades out roughly :04 sooner than on the former CD. (By the way, I also detect what sounds like some vinyl crackling during the intro of both the Rhino CDs, so I'm wondering if these are vinyl dubs?) Although I passed along Jim's run times for his commercial 45 of "Sky High", I do not have a copy of it to verify how the intro begins. It's also possible that the song might have a different intro on the Jigsaw Sky High 1975 vinyl LP. If anyone can furnish information for either, it may be a big help in solving this mystery. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 05 May 2009 at 9:59pm
|
I had remembered the subject of this song came up in the lengthy "CDs Mastered From Vinyl" thread.
Gordon (EdisonLite) posted this about "Sky High": <Jigsaw "Skyhigh" is indeed mastered from vinyl on many VA comps (I have only 3 total), however I believe it's from tape on Targon's Very Best Of (or cleaned up very well!).> Being that I was the co-producer of Taragon's "Very Best of Jigsaw" I can confirm that the master tape was used. All Jigsaw import CDs that contain "Sky High" are from master tape, too. I don't have all the U.S. various artist comps, and I can't quite recall about the Rhino "Super Hits", other than I remember the intro was faded in instead of starting at the proper volume, and that does make me suspicious as to whether they used vinyl and needed to cover it up in the quiet spot. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 06 May 2009 at 12:20am
|
Yes, and having been co-producer on that Taragon "Best of Jigsaw" CD, I spoke firsthand with the master tape owner, Chas Peate, and master tape was used for "Sky High."
Also, to answer the question above, the song does not have a different intro on the Jigsaw Sky High 1975 vinyl LP. Rhino was the first label to fade in and out on "Sky High", and the other fadein CDs are just copies of the Rhino source, which would seem to be from vinyl to hide the noise in the quiet intro and outro. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 06 May 2009 at 6:31am
| Thanks, Gordon and John. There's lot of significant info here that should probably be incorporated into the database. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 06 May 2009 at 10:29am
|
And FYI, the only vinyl source used on the 24-song Taragaon "Best of Jigsaw" CD was for the Hot 100 hit "Brand New Love Affair". Chas Peate explained to me that Wes Farrell requested the original tape to add applause/cheering to the recording and make it seem like it was a live recording (which is rather odd in itself considering the recording fades, and most live bands just end a song rather than fade it.) Thus, when "Brand New Love Affair" became an A-side single (instead of the B-side of "Sky High"), suddenly the same recording had concert applause. Anyway, years later while transferring the Jigsaw catalog from master tape to DAT, Chas realized he didn't have the masters on the no-applause or applause versions of this song and deduced that Wes Farrell never sent them back.
Also, of all Jigsaw's recordings between 1972 and the mid '80s, this is the only one where vinyl had to be used. (And btw, there are a total of 160 Jigsaw recordings. Most US fans think they had just the 3 albums = 30 songs, but that's not the case at all.) |
Posted By: 80smusicfreak
Date Posted: 06 May 2009 at 1:55pm
True, and I also know for a fact that - here in the U.S., anyway - "Sky High" appeared on more than one of those albums, which seems to have been overlooked here. Although they're currently buried away in my closet, and I haven't listened to either in quite some time, I know because I have both albums on cassette. The first was 1975's "Sky High" album, on Chelsea 509, which was the one on store shelves at the time the song was a hit (features drawings of the four band members & puzzle pieces on the cover). But then in 1977, the song also appeared on their self-titled album, on 20th Century 545 (features just the band's new logo on the front cover). Are the versions of "Sky High" on the two different albums identical in every way??? |
EdisonLite wrote:Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 06 May 2009 at 10:08pm
| YES! |
Posted By: budaniel
Date Posted: 08 May 2009 at 12:31pm
| so, on Rock n Roll Relix, is it the complete recording NOT mastered from vinyl? Other than the taragon release, what other source is correct? Because the Taragon release is out of print and getting pricey very fast on amazon. |
Posted By: Bill Cahill
Date Posted: 08 May 2009 at 5:35pm
|
The Rock N Roll Relix CD sounds like the imports I've heard, from a master. It does not fade up, starts like it should with no surface noise apparent.
But the EQ is more flat than the Rhino needle drop which sounds like the highs have been boosted. Might have been boosted on the original vinyl LP in the US. Not sure. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 10 May 2009 at 6:43pm
| I concur with Bill's assessment of the sound quality on the Rock 'N' Roll Relix CD. Do all the import CDs have the same flat sounding EQ? I was on the verge of purchasing one with hopes that the sound quality would have a crisper high end and more overall "punch", but I'll pass if they all sound like the Rock 'N' Roll Relix disc. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 11 May 2009 at 10:25am
|
Sorry to pass on this bad news, but since this song has been in discussion a lot recently, I thought I'd pass it on:
Clive Scott, founding member of Jigsaw and the co-writer of all their songs (with member Des Dyer) passed away yesterday. He fell from a ladder 2 weeks ago and had surgery on his brain. Unfortunately, he had a stroke a couple of days ago and did not survive. Clive was a friend of mine (and a co-writer of mine, too) and his wife just wrote me to tell me the sad news. Clive and Des also wrote "Who Do You Think You Are", which became a top 15 hit for Bo Donaldson & the Heywoods. I often spoke to Clive over the phone and it's hard to believe he's gone ... and from such a fluke accident. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 11 May 2009 at 2:17pm
|
Gordon:
I'm very sorry to learn of the sudden and tragic passing of your friend Clive and I can only imagine how devastating this must be to his family. My condolences go out to them. The music world unfortunately loses one more talented musician and songwriter in Clive, but he leaves behind some well-crafted pop music that fans around the world will continue to enjoy and appreciate for years to come. |
Posted By: Bill Cahill
Date Posted: 11 May 2009 at 5:13pm
|
Sorry to hear that sad news.
Going back the the EQ question and imports, I can report that the various artists import "Blockbuster 18 Smashes from the 70's" MUSCD 011 Music Collection International from the EEC contains the clean but flatter EQ version heard on Relix. My guess is that Chelsea Records EQed it. Sounds like the same mix. |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 11 May 2009 at 5:52pm
| Gordon, I'm also sorry to hear the news about your friend and co-writer. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 11 May 2009 at 6:24pm
| Yes, Gordon, condolences and may he rest in peace. |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 30 November 2016 at 9:08pm
|
Revisiting "Sky High" seven years later...
The 45 starts with 16 repetitions of a boingy sound in the left channel. The 16 reps are all roughly the same volume, which is well below the volume of the full song. The 45 runs 2:53. I suspect that the LP version is the same as the 45, but can't confirm. The oldest CD I have with the song is Rhino's Have A Nice Day Vol. 15 (1990), where it's taken from vinyl, fades in to mask the surface noise on the boingy sounds, fades out early (at 2:47) to mask the surface noise on the fade, and has the left/right channels swapped (boingy sounds on the right). Not ideal, but it actually sounds better than my description would indicate. The same analog transfer is used on:
In 1998, Taragon released The Very Best Of Jigsaw, which was the first CD to use a tape source. It runs 2:51 (two seconds shorter than the 45), and has the boingy sounds in the left channel at the proper volume. It's mastered a little loud and clips a bit in the loud portions, but it's better than the Rhino needledrop. I suspect that there are some compilations released after 1998 that are based on the Very Best Of mastering, but I don't have any. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: Ringmaster_D
Date Posted: 01 December 2016 at 10:28am
|
Ron, have you compared the Rock And Roll Relix CD
with the sources you list above? I wonder if the missing seconds could be grafted on from that source. (I haven't heard it myself.) |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 01 December 2016 at 10:37am
|
If someone would be so kind to send me a WAV or FLAC of the song from Rock And Roll Relix, I'll compare and post my findings. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: Bill Cahill
Date Posted: 04 December 2016 at 4:36am
|
I now have both the original album and stock single. I don't hear the high end EQed that brightly on either, seems to have started in the CD
era. Also the single sounds slightly different to me but not by much. Instruments are all at the same locations, but it sounds like there's more reverb (not echo) on the the voice. Also the strings sound louder to me on the intro and at other parts of the song (on the 45). However, both slight differences may be a result of more "compression" added to the single. All CD issues that I have heard sound like the LP. Or, I'm just hearing things.. would love to get other reviews. |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 04 December 2016 at 4:14pm
|
Bill sent me a WAV file of "Sky High" from Eclipse Music Group/EMI's Rock 'N Roll Relix 1974-1975 (1997).
I'm happy to report that it sounds like it uses the same source tape as the Jigsaw Best Of, but about 6 dB quieter, and with a significantly larger dynamic range than Best Of over most of the song (all but the first 30 seconds and 1:25-1:40). The dynamic range very closely matches what's found on the 45. Relix lacks the added compression/limiting that's found on Best Of, which is very good. The fade starting and ending points match those on Best Of. The EQ on Relix is a little more restrained and less midrange-heavy than Best Of, but only a little. On the needledrop of the 45 that I have, the very tail of the fade runs about 1 second longer than Relix. I can live with that. My impression: I prefer Relix, which was a very pleasant surprise. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: Steve Carras
Date Posted: 14 October 2017 at 1:32pm
RIP..sorry to hear all of that..except that you had the good fortune when he was alive to have been very good friends with him! That must have been fun to know him! I've always liked Sky High (and like an earlier 1975 US hit, the Ozark Mtn.Daredevils's "Jackie Blue", this always sounded like a girl singing when it ain't.) Thank you for posting.. ------------- You know you're really older when you think that younger singer Jesse McCartney's related in anyway to former Beatle Paul McCartney. |
Posted By: Bill Cahill
Date Posted: 14 October 2017 at 7:30pm
|
It looks like there were at least two mixes of "Sky High".
My Jigsaw LP contains the same mix that I hear on every CD that I own. This mix can be noted by a kettle drum hit in the right channel (unless my channels are reversed) at 1:03, and a rather loud "ding" at 1:17 in the right channel. My two stock copies of the single, mix down both of those instruments so they are barely heard, I'm not even sure that I hear the kettle drum hit on the single. Plus the strings sound louder overall on the single. Of course there could have been different mixes on different pressings of the 45 and LP, I don't know. Instrument placement is the same on both versions, it's just that the single seems to be more "leveled out". All of those "mastered from vinyl" CDs in the database and the Rock "n" Roll Relix 1974-1974 CD all sound the same as my LP, with the louder kettle drum and ding. So are all CD issues this mix? Has the other mix, which are on both of my stock 45s appeared anywhere? If all pressings of the LP and Single contain the mixes that I have, then there is an LP and a Single mix. |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 16 October 2017 at 1:09pm
|
Does the 45 emphasize the marimba/xylophone hits during the chorus? (My guess is no, and what I'm hearing when I preview the (2:50ish) versions
on iTunes is possibly a British mix of the song.) ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 18 October 2017 at 6:55pm
Yes, it was great to know Clive Scott. Most people think of Jigsaw as a 1-hit or 2-hit wonder in the US. But in the UK, they actually had many LPs and a total of 160 songs released. I knew much of their catalog of songs in the '70s and then discovered the rest (of their '70s and early '80s songs) in the mid '90s. For me, the group is way up there as a pop group, a personal favorite. To anyone who doesn't know they did anything more than "Sky High", they must think I'm crazy for ranking the group so high. Sky high, in fact :) |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 18 October 2017 at 6:59pm
| If anyone can get to the bottom of this single mix vs. album mix definitely, let me know. I was just in touch with Jigsaw's former manager a week ago, and maybe he can shed some light. But I'd rather write him with some definitive differences that we are sure of. (Sometimes compression on a CD can make certain instruments stand out louder, but it's not really a different mix). He didn't produce their material but he's very familiar with it, so he may very well know of a unique single version. There was, of course, the movie soundtrack version (The film had 2 names, one of which was "The Man From Hong Kong" IIRC) and that version has appeared on some import CDs. And then there were remixes done in the '90s. In fact, I just ordered 3 Jigsaw CDs yesterday - their 1970 album, their 1971 album - and a 2 CD compilation including about 6-8 different (new) remixes of "Sky High". Generally, I don't like modern remixes of old songs, but I'm curious to hear this, plus the 2 CD set had a lot of other rarities on it. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 18 October 2017 at 7:01pm
| PS. Jigsaw was more psychadelic during their 1970-1971 era - very different from "Sky High". So for those of you who like early '70s psychadelic music, you might want to check some of this out. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 03 February 2020 at 3:11pm
|
I finally A-B'd the single and album versions of "Sky High", with Bill Cahill's comments above in mind. There DEFINITELY is a different mix for the single, and it should be noted in the database. It's not a compression issue. I agree with Bill's comments - plus found 2 more differences. In summary, here are all the points I could find where the mixes differ (Bill's observations and mine). On the single:
*There's more reverb on the vocals *The vocals are louder in the mix *At 1:03, the kettle drum/ding is much softer *At 1:17, the kettle drum/ding is much softer (Both instances above may be the same sound, but in one case, it's mixed so low it's hard to tell) *The strings are mixed louder on the single, but by Chorus 2 (1:56) the strings are mixed softer than the LP mix *The overall volume level seems pretty evened out on the single, whereas on the album Chorus 3 is definitely louder than Chorus 1 (not so on the single). This is consistent with Bill's point that the single is most likely compressed. It's hard to compare them perfectly because the 2 sources are so different (and one being from vinyl while the other from CD). There may be other subtle differences as well. Based on all this, I definitely think this warrants an "LP version" notation in the database for all CDs. I have a ton of import Jigsaw CDs, which I should check, but all masters were probably provided by Chas Peate, the owner, so it's doubtful he was aware of this and even ever transferred the single master tape to digital. If any CDs were sourced by the Japanese (or other countries') labels, then there's a chance. |