Any word on Complete Motown Singles 1972?
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Topic: Any word on Complete Motown Singles 1972?
Posted By: eriejwg
Subject: Any word on Complete Motown Singles 1972?
Date Posted: 02 June 2009 at 7:23pm
| Can't find anything on any continued collections. Are they done at 1971 11B? |
Replies:
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 03 June 2009 at 10:06am
| I was wondering that myself. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 17 December 2012 at 11:36pm
|
3 1/2 years later, I'm guessing this project did indeed
finish at 1971. |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 18 December 2012 at 12:34am
|
I gave up hope also. ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 18 December 2012 at 10:11pm
|
Yes, they can't get the rights to some of the songs for
1972 (the theory is it's Stevie Wonder's stuff, as he owns all his own masters starting in 1972, but I don't really know). And they said they would not issue an incomplete volume. So it appears the series will end with 1972, unfortunately. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 19 December 2012 at 12:34pm
|
Yes, it will end with 1971, unfortunately. And it's true - someone at Motown/Universal told me that it was indeed because of the Stevie Wonder masters - Universal apparently licensed all the songs but the Stevie singles, so the 1972 boxed set will not come out because it would be missing 3 Stevie Wonder singles (including one that only peaked at #90). Too bad for the other 297 Motown singles (including many that have never been released on CD). (Actually, I don't know the true number but it's a lot larger than the 3 they couldn't license.)
This also means there obviously can't be any boxed sets for future years either. It's too bad Stevie Wonder himself is the reason for the discontinuation of the series. It's not like Motown wouldn't pay him for the use of his songs (and I'm sure they wouldn't even insist on 3/4 rate, as record labels often do.) So I don't know why Stevie is so opposed. But obviously there is now bad blood between Motown & Stevie Wonder. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 19 December 2012 at 3:29pm
|
Really? Only THREE songs? Then I think they are foolish to not issue the final volumes.
Was Stevie's final mono single "What Christmas Means to Me," issued on the Motown 1971B volume? I'm not sure he had any mono singles after that, so omitting them from a Motown 1972 volume would not be much of a loss. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 20 December 2012 at 11:57am
| As far as I know, yes it's just the Stevie Wonder singles that are stopping the 1972 boxed set from happening. I'd suggested they simply take out the word "Complete" from the box title and issue the set with 99% of the songs, but their response was they wouldn't put out the box at all if they couldn't do the "Complete" version. |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 20 December 2012 at 6:36pm
"project precedent" to do exactly that - leave off tracks they couldn't license. As I recall, there were already close to a dozen, pre-1972 Rare Earth 45 releases that had been left off previous volumes in this series. The liner notes clearly explained that the reason for their omission was that these 45s were originally issued in a foreign country, that Motown simply leased these masters for the U.S. at the time, and that Motown no longer owned the rights to be able to again include them here. Granted, none of these omitted Rare Earth 45 releases charted at all, and their exclusion, while sad for the "completion-ists" among us, had minimal public impact. Obviously, the same cannot be said for Stevie Wonder, despite 1972 being a particularly weak chart year for him. But still, all his 1972 tracks are already available on other CDs. Does anyone think it possible that Harry Weinger simply went ahead, long ago, expecting no license issues, and had all 5000 "TCMS 1972: Part One" CD copies pressed up? Which now precludes him from going ahead and removing "Superwoman/I Love Every Little Thing About You", which was the only 45 Stevie Wonder issued in the first half of 1972? (Both "Keep On Running", "Superstition" and their flip sides would have appeared on the "1972: Part Two" set.) To me, there's *no* other rational explanation for all the work Weinger & Co, had done to have simply been "abandoned", and for this set to still not ever see the light of day, albeit in a "slightly amended form." Clearly, these 1972 sets would've sold just as well as the others had (if not better, given the delays), with or without the 6 Stevie Wonder sides. |
EdisonLite wrote:Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 21 December 2012 at 1:18pm
|
That's interesting! I didn't know that about the Rare Earth songs. There is precedent! The only thing I can think is Weinger considers Wonder a more significant artist than Rare Earth (which is the case, but still...)
I doubt they would have pressed up 5000 box sets without having everything cleared. Universal's a major label and I just can't see them doing that. Plus, they probably already knew Stevie was a question mark, with him owning his 1972+ masters. |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 21 December 2012 at 2:51pm
Gordon, just as a point of clarification: what Jim meant by Rare Earth 45s "originally released in a foreign country," he was referring to the Rare Earth label as opposed to the band Rare Earth. Four of those early 45 releases on the Rare Earth label were European EMI records licensed to Rare Earth for American release. These included singles by the Dutch band The Cats, U.K. acts Toe Fat and the Pretty Things as well as "Love At First Sight," a G-rated instrumental cover version of "Je T'Aime...Moi No Plus" by Sounds Nice. One other licensed single on the Rare Earth label actually charted on the Hot 100, when the Easybeats' "St. Louis" spent seven whole days at the very bottom position during mid-November of 1969. |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 21 December 2012 at 5:27pm
|
I thought all of Stevie's singles that year were stereo. Isn't it possible all
six songs he isn't allowing in this set are already available? Either the correct 45 length or an easy early fade (as in the case of "Superwoman"). ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 21 December 2012 at 9:18pm
|
Oh - the Rare Earth label! Thanks for the clarification.
Santi, yes the Stevie Wonder songs are available and can be faded (as in the case of "Superwoman"). But that isn't so much the issue here, as is the fact that none of the other 1972 releases will be on a boxed set BECAUSE of the Stevie Wonder songs not being available for the box. |
Posted By: Paul C
Date Posted: 22 December 2012 at 9:07am
|
I don't believe Stevie Wonder actually owns his masters, but he does "control" the material he recorded starting in 1972 (that is, Universal can't do anything with them without his blessing, just as Capitol-EMI can't do anything with The Beatles' recordings without their approval eventhough Capitol-EMI owns them.)
I doubt that he outright refused to allow the recordings to appear on the Motown singles box, but that he had instead demanded a very large advance. (When his "I Wish" was sampled in Will Smith's "Wild, Wild West", he damanded - and received - a $500,000 advance.) Since the Motown singles boxes were pressed in relatively small quantities, it likely didn't make sense for Universal to give him the advance he was demanding. (Not that I have any inside information; I'm just speculating here.) |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 22 December 2012 at 8:31pm
|
Now you may have hit it spot on Paul on his wanting too much of an
advance especially since all six of the songs in question are already on CD. Don't know if any of the b-sides differed from the LP versions but I wouldn't have missed them if this set was released without Stevie's tracks included. ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 26 December 2012 at 2:56pm
I understand that it is three tracks Stevie Wonder is objecting to. My guess is that Stevie just wants the album versions out there now.guess ------------- |
Posted By: Glenpwood
Date Posted: 20 March 2013 at 3:16pm
|
1972 vol. 1 is scheduled for May and 1972 vol. 2 will come out at the
end of the year according to Harry Weinger. |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 20 March 2013 at 5:58pm
|
But it will now be a Universal Select instead of Hip-O
Select box, correct? ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 20 March 2013 at 6:13pm
Correct. And, the Stevie Wonder tracks, the ones that held up the set, are going to be on it. ------------- |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 20 March 2013 at 6:52pm
| Is there a track listing anywhere? |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 20 March 2013 at 9:24pm
| This is great news and am anxious to see track lists too. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 21 March 2013 at 12:02am
|
Whee hoo! Let's hope they include some bonus tracks with
corrections from the previous volumes. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 21 March 2013 at 12:12am
| Universal Music Select have announced it on their Twitter page. |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 21 March 2013 at 3:51am
|
Brian, much as I'd love it, I'm not holding out much hope for a "corrections
bonus tracks" series addendum. (Maybe drop Harry Weinger a "reminder e- mail" about it, though? Nothing to lose.) I'm ecstatic at this news! It's just been so long a delay, I'd given up all hope on ever seeing those two 1972 volumes. (And Pat, PS, I will again be providing you with my "guest review" version details, for all the db-appearing tracks appearing on these, as I have done for all the other volumes in this series.) |
Posted By: musicmanatl
Date Posted: 22 March 2013 at 5:05pm
| This really is awesome! |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 09 May 2013 at 6:10pm
|
The track list is finally up on the Hip-O Select website.
Release date is May 31st for the five disc set (12A). ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: KentT
Date Posted: 13 May 2013 at 7:52pm
|
Glad to see this set finally released. Good news. ------------- I turn up the good and turn down the bad! |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 30 May 2013 at 9:19pm
|
Just over an hour ago (Thurs 11PM ET), I received an e-mail from Hip-O
Select, informing me that my 5-CD Complete Motown Singles 1972A pre-order was rush shipped out (with tracking) on Wednesday, 5/29. There was no last minute delay; it was released on schedule. Maybe there's a shot I'll even get it Saturday! I'd like to personally thank ace Motown compiler (and new Brian W. buddy! :) ) Harry Weinger, for never giving up on this long-delayed project, for successfully playing "We Can Work It Out" with Stevie Wonder on it, to make this final yearly installment 2-pack available to us 45 version fanatics. These volumes are among the most very prized possessions in my large CD collection. Only 1972B left to go! I know it's 2013. New catalog CD releases are way down. But with good folks like Mr. Weinger and Eric's Bill Buster still actively involved, I know us collectors will never be forgotten! They've proven it to us, time and time again. (Pat, your "guest review" e-mail on this set will arrive from me any day now....) |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 01 June 2013 at 12:28pm
|
Happily, I did receive the 5-CD set in the mail today (Sat.), and I have
already done/sent out to Pat an e-mail, with all my "guest review" details to him. This time, there were just 8 songs currently in Pat's db, and just one with both a mono and stereo promo version included (Temptations- "Take A Look Around".) The 7 other db entries on this set all appear only in stereo. As I said to Pat in my e-mail, regarding the sparse 1972 Motown hit total, Berry Gordy was obviously pre-occupued at this time, with both the June '72 move of Motown's label operations from Detroit to L.A., and him working on his own lifelong dream, doing a Billie Holiday-based film, "Lady Sings The Blues", starring his own Diana Ross, than he was directly involved in creating hit records. |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 05 November 2013 at 8:16pm
|
Here's the heads up: Looks like the final volume (12B) on
five discs covering the second half of 1972 will be released on Dec. 10th per Amazon (where one can pre-order). No track listing yet on that site and no info on the Hip-O Select website as of yet. ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: rnell
Date Posted: 06 November 2013 at 6:08am
|
I've seen the track listing in this UK page a few days ago.
http://www.prescriptionmusicpruk.com/press-releases/2013/10/ 18/the-complete-motown-singles-volume-12b-1972.html |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 14 November 2013 at 10:25pm
|
The full track listing/pre-order info for the final CMS volume, Vol. 12B:
1972 has now been updated to www.hip-oselect.com, including a detailed track listing. As of today, the release date is still shown as Dec. 10th. Whereas Amazon's price for it is currently $97.07, the Hip-O Select web site's price is just $75.98. So I have just pre-ordered from the latter, with priority shipping. The moment I get it, I will analyze it, and provide for Pat one final "guest review" for this series. Nine more db songs will be included on Vol. 12B, including a newly-pressed 45/Box Set cover insert of "Papa Was A Rollin' Stone". -Michael Jackson--Ben -Gladys Knight & The Pips--Daddy Could Swear, I Declare (this was actually a Top 40 hit in the late spring of 1973; but it's a nice bonus...) -Temptations--Papa Was A Rollin' Stone -Jackson 5--Corner Of The Sky (and these five, which all reached their chart peak positions in early 1973) -Stevie Wonder--Superstition -Jermaine Jackson--Daddy's Home -Marvin Gaye--Trouble Man -Diana Ross--Good Morning Heartache -Gladys Knight & The Pips--Neither One Of Us (as the last track on the last CD.) Although my info has both the included singles by this group actually issued as 45s in 1973 (between 1/1 and 1/21/73 for "Neither...", debuting in BB on 1/27/73), to me, it's a nice touch to end the CMS series on a "high note", with a #2 smash hit, as well as ensuring that all of the group's Top 40 hits on Soul/Motown were all included in this series (with their first 45 for Buddah issued in June of '73.) I also think it's great that when Harry Weinger & Co. realized they had a little bit of extra CD capacity left over to play with, they decided to put it to good use, and were able to include Gladys' last two Motown Top 40 hits. A class move! |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 06 December 2013 at 3:05am
|
I just got an e-mail from Motown Select, saying that the final CMS
installment (12B) was Priority shipped to me on Wed (12/4/13). Hopefully, it will arrive by Saturday. I will then provide my final "guest review" to Pat. I also want to thank Pat personally, for both allowing me and trusting me to report CMS findings to him that are 100% accurate. I know that this arrangement is not something that Pat has agreed to very often, over the years. As a result of his open mind, a good number of unique stock and promo 45 versions, many of which made their only CD appearance on these volumes, do appear in the db. I'm also relieved that this series could finally be issued to its initially planned end year (1972 - thanks, Stevie Wonder!) Usually, when a project "stalls/bogs down" for 3+ years, there's little or no hope left for a series resumption. And I'm sure that without Motown's Harry Weinger, these two 1972 sets would never have been released. We collectors need more guys like Harry Weinger, fighting the fight for us from the corporate side of things! |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 29 June 2014 at 2:13pm
|
I was about to finally purchase the two 1972 volumes of this series with some Amazon gift cards I received for my birthday. Then I noticed: There are MORE incorrect stereo versions substituted for mono versions!
In fact, it looks like 1972B might be all stereo. For example, "Ben" is stereo; "Little Bitty Pretty One" on 12A is stere; the 45s for both were mono. Really disappointing. |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 29 June 2014 at 3:04pm
|
Brian, inside the CMS 1972 liner notes (not sure if it was 1972A or
1972B's), Harry Weinger explained that, by 1972, more and more Motown 45s were being originally recorded/prepared for stereo. I think he made mention that, although some 1972 stock copies were still being released in mono, a majority of 1972 promo 45s were issued in mono/stereo. (Late 1972's #1 hit "Papa Was A Rollin' Stone" was an exception, though. All promo/stock 45s for it were mono, and included an instrumental B-side; the song does appear on the 1972B CMS volume in mono.) Weinger stated that *all* 1972 mono 45 versions were simply fold-downs of the stereo 45 versions. So, all other things being equal, he opted to include the stereo single masters for these 1972 45 tracks. (And you know that I, like you, am normally partial to mono 45 versions.) Personally, I thought his rationale here made good sense, trusting that his facts were in order. Weinger clearly had to decide here, one way or the other, or else both 1972 packages would've become 10 CD sets! Brian, if you've happened upon any evidence where Weinger mis-spoke, and located any 1972 mono single mixes that *weren't* simply fold downs of the stereo single mixes, then please provide specific examples. If you'd like me to shoot you out "Ben", "Little Bitty Pretty One", or any other specific 1972 tracks, to compare/contrast against your 45s, just let me know. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 29 June 2014 at 3:57pm
Mm... I had suspected that could be the reason. Because just last night I verified that "Got to Be There" is definitely, 100% a fold-down, and it sounded to me like "Ben" probably was, too, although it was hard to tell from the 45 someone posted on YouTube. Yes, I agree that the decision makes sense. Thanks, Jim. |
Posted By: Bill Cahill
Date Posted: 30 June 2014 at 2:30pm
| I compared "Trouble Man" by Marvin Gaye using the mono and stereo sides of the DJ copy, and it certainly sounds like a fold down to me. |