Madonna Edits
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Topic: Madonna Edits
Posted By: elcoleccionista
Subject: Madonna Edits
Date Posted: 29 November 2005 at 12:42am
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Hi guys, I was just reading Brian's list and I join the others on thanking him for sharing the info.
As a big remix nut, I have over the years researched a lot to find Madonna's edits and remix/edits on CD whenever possible. A few things come to mind: The japanese CD single collection was great news for me at the time it was released, I was very happy when I found about it because I knew that it probably had at least a few versions that would be otherwise unavailable on CD, and so it was. After buying it though, I was quite disappointed with the crappy quality of the covers, the photos are grainy and a little washed out. But most importantly, I realized the set was not 100% loyal to the original CD3 releases as it was supposed to be. This is true at least for one of the singles. The "Like A Prayer" CD3 on the Jap box has the album version of the song, while the original Japan CD3 includes the 7" remix (without fade, clocking in at about 5:19). Speaking of versions on 45's, I recalled an interesting pice of info on "Dress You Up". If anybody's interested in it, the 7" promo vynil contains the LP version on side A (same as the commercial 45), but on side B it has an otherwise unavailable version called remix/edit, which is basically a radio friendly edit of "The 12" Formal Mix. And for those who enjoy editing, if you want to own some of the old edits with digital quality, it is possible to do it using any editor like Sound Forge, extract the corresponding version from the CD and make it shorter. I have done this with the two album edits from her debut album which are to date unavailable on CD: "Everybody" and "Lucky Star". What I did is thoroughly compare the album version to the edit on the 7" vinyls, identified the edited parts, and there's our CD quality edit, no need to wait for a CD release : ) In the specific case of "Everybody", the 1982 edit was made using the extended version, not the album version. I realized this after having trouble to replicate the edit using the album version. I then checked the extended version, and there were the parts I was missing to do the edit. Of course it's not possible to do it with all edits because they may have been slightly remixed or restructured in a way that doesn't allow to copy the editing structure, but with those two above you can do it, and if you are a sound quality freak like me, you'll surely appreciate listening to them with CD quality over the horrible sound of most 7" vinyls. Well, looks like I got carried away, so I'll stop now, hahaha. Johann from Argentina |
Replies:
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 29 November 2005 at 3:04am
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Hi, Johann. I do have the 7" edit of Everybody and the Remix/Edit of Dress You Up that someone sent me, but I have long suspected they were just edited down from the full length versions of the songs. Thanks for solving a mystery.
So the original Japanese CD3 of "Like a Prayer" used the 7" Remix, eh? Strange that they'd use the LP fade for the singles box (and it is an early fade of the LP version, not the full LP version). Johann, have you seen any sign of the remix/edits for "Hung Up" that are on iTunes now? Three of them appear to be iTunes exlusives... I've not seen the edit versions on any commercial or promo CDs. |
Posted By: elcoleccionista
Date Posted: 30 November 2005 at 7:27pm
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Hey Brian! You are right! After reading your response I popped the LAP 3" from the box and it does fade early. As you can see I never really listened to the single, still have hard feelings about the set : p
Regarding "Hung Up", a friend called me last week because he had seen the Hammel and Chus & Ceballos remix edits on a forum. I assumed they were home made but now that you mention the iTunes store, I guess they are official. The only remix/edit I have seen released is the Tracy Young one. I have it on the Argentina cd single which has the exact same track listing as the UK and Aussie 3 track ones. I thought it was also released as an edit on the USA 6 track cd single? Is it the full length remix? |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 30 November 2005 at 10:12pm
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Yes, the Tracy Young Get Up and Groove edit I think is on all the CD single releases... However, I don't think the extended version of that mix has been issued commercially on CD at all, though I did recently see an alleged promo CD-R of it somewhere. I say alleged because, with CD-Rs, there's no way to tell whether it's official or just a copy... unless it's an older song.
I recently ran into that when I purchased a supposedly offical in-studio CD-R of rough remixes of Madonna's "Buenos Aires" that were unreleased. Being suspicious by nature, and no dummy either, I contacted Mitsui, who manufactured the CD-R, and gave them the matrix number on the inner groove. Aha! The CD-R was not even manufactured until 2002... FIVE YEARS after the song was released! So clearly this "super rare in-house CD-R acetate" was a copy. I did work out a satisfactory deal with the guy who sold it to me, fortunately. |
Posted By: elcoleccionista
Date Posted: 30 November 2005 at 10:19pm
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Brian, I have seen that CD-R with the full length mix of "Hung Up's" Tracy Young mix, and agree, who knows if it's official.
That was a very cool way to find out! I have the BA 3 track promo CD but only have a copy of that acetate. I'll keep it in mind! I don't really collect inhouse CD-R's mainly for that reason, they can be easily faked, but your strategy was quite conclusive. |
Posted By: 995wlol
Date Posted: 15 October 2007 at 3:18pm
| Sorry to bump this old post, but does anyone have the edit points for Holiday and Lucky Star to bring the LP versions down to single length? I'd like to edit them myself, but am feeling a bit lazy and hope someone can save me part of the effort ;-) |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 15 October 2007 at 4:37pm
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I've created custom edits for both of those songs, and they both have several edits. "Lucky Star" has an edit on the intro and cuts out the music after the "shine your heavenly body" bridge. There's also an earlier fade.
"Holiday" has even more edits, but I'd have to go back and compare the single with the LP to tell you where the exact edit points are. I generally don't keep written instructions for any of my edits, and unfortunately, my memory isn't good enough to remember where they occur. |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 15 October 2007 at 7:47pm
I kept written instructions for the edit for "Lucky Star", but the details weren't as complete as with later '80s-era tracks. I started with the Madonna CD, but didn't keep times referenced to the LP version, like I usually do. In the final version, there are edits at 0:14, 2:04 and 3:09. I added a 32-beat sinusoidal fade at 3:34, then adjusted silence at intro from 1.0 sec to 0.2 sec, then added 2 sec of silence at end. Total run time of 3:51 for my edit. |
995wlol wrote:Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 15 October 2007 at 10:53pm
That's exactly right. You'll need to edit out 8 seconds at 0:14, making your edit point on the bass drum. The next section removed is from 2:19 to 2:35 of the LP version; and the final edit is from 3:41 to 3:57 of the LP version, both on the bass drum & first beat of the measure. (Don't worry if they sound choppy; that's how the 45 sounds.) The fade does, indeed, start at 3:34 and goes to 3:51. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 15 October 2007 at 11:09pm
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The database says the 45 version of "Lucky Star" runs 3:48, so I did my edits and faded to 3:48.
Does the 45 actually run 3:51? |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 15 October 2007 at 11:11pm
| Oh, and I think I did 4 edits... |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 15 October 2007 at 11:23pm
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Here's the instructions for "Holiday," starting with the full length LP version from the non-remastered CD of Madonna:
1. Cut off the ending from 5:53 to the end on the word "together." 2. Create a nice bell-curve fade out from 5:39 to the end. 3. Edit out the section from 4:58 to 5:15 right before the word "holiday" on the snare drum hit. (A little of the word "nation" is left behind, but that's how it is on the 45.) 4. Edit out the section from 4:00 to 4:41 on the snare drum hit before the word "holiday." 5. Edit out the section from 2:33 to 2:41 on the snare drum and keyboard riff. 6. Edit out the section from 2:10 to 2:27 with your edit points on the snare before the word "it." 7. Edit out the section from 0:24 to 0:41 before the snare hit & keyboard riff. 8. Edit off everything before 0:08. The song stars on the fourth beat of a measure right where the keyboard hook comes in. Now I know why I don't normally post edit instructions... |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 15 October 2007 at 11:25pm
I suppose it depends on the speed that your turntable is running, but your edit should run 3:51 at the CD LP version speed. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 30 October 2007 at 11:11am
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Aaron:
After sending out my "Lucky Star" edit to you and Ron, I seem to have seen these edit points the same night I made the edit...
With THAT now in mind, see if my edit agrees with your findings... |
Posted By: 995wlol
Date Posted: 31 October 2007 at 6:36am
| aaronk--FYI I tried to respond to the PM you sent a while back, but your inbox is full. Just wanted to give you a heads-up!! |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 31 October 2007 at 8:09am
| After having Aaron review my "Lucky Star" edits and having listened to Ron's edits, mine indeed were in the wrong places, making it a neither the 45 nor LP edit. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 31 October 2007 at 11:49am
Thanks! I just emptied a bunch of them out. |
Posted By: JL328
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 1:50pm
bumping, but I've been on an editing kick lately. I'm having the hardest time with the edit in the intro on Lucky Star. It seems like there was a consensus in 2007 that the first edit comes at 0:14 but I can't figure out how that's possible. I'm using the physical CD of the self-titled Madonna as the source for the LP version and the video as the guide for the 45 version. The vocal starts at 0:40 on the LP version. It starts at 0:24 on the video (45) version. So, 16 seconds need to be cut somewhere from the intro. Above, you all said the intro edit is at 0:14 and lasts for 8 seconds, but when I make that edit, the intro is much different (and still 8 seconds longer) than the intro on the video version. And the vocal doesn't start until 0:32. Instead of an 8 second edit at 0:14, what I'm hearing is a 16 second edit at 0:21. When I cut between 0:21 and 0:37 of the LP version, the intro matches the video exactly and the vocal starts at 0:24 like it should. This also matches what's on the Immaculate Collection, minus all the Q-sound stuff. So I'm confused. I have the edits like this: Delete 0:21.216 to 0:37.598 of the LP version Delete 2:19.390 to 2:35.758 of the LP version Delete 3:41.359 to 3:57.718 of the LP version Fade the result from 3:34 to 3:51. Several expert editors confirmed above that the edit comes at 0:14 so I'm sure I'm doing something wrong here, but can anybody tell me what I'm missing? |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 2:32pm
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Oops, there are actually two edits on the intro. When Ron posted his times for where the edits occur, I didn't double check that he had included them all. The one not posted is from 0:29 to 0:38, where another :08 has been edited from the intro.
So, you'll have edits at both 0:14 and 0:29 (two :08 edits instead of one :16 edit). ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 2:39pm
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By the way, the official video on YouTube does not match the US stock 45. I'm not sure if this is a case where the video and 45 edits don't match or if they re-edited the song for better audio quality and goofed on the edits. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: JL328
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 5:23pm
would explain it. I'd never considered that the video might not be the true 45 version. Good news is I guess I'm not crazy. Bad news is that if the video's off, I don't have a 45 guide. Thanks again. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 21 February 2017 at 6:13pm
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This one sounds right: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KMcRL5ZR3Bg ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 22 February 2017 at 2:20am
Not only does it not match the stock 45, it doesn't match the original video's audio! It seems to be a newer edit made for the video, for reasons unknown. |
Posted By: JL328
Date Posted: 22 February 2017 at 2:20pm
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Well, I guess I've got myself a pretty awesome recreation of the "fake
YouTube video edit version" of Lucky Star then, unfortunately. Too bad... it came out pretty nice. Thanks Aaron for pointing me to the video of the real 45 version. It's been years since I've heard the single edit on the radio and that seemed to be what I remember. I think I figured out those first 2 intro edits for anyone who wants them. I have them at: Delete 14.070 to 22.246 Delete 29.235 to 37.433 Delete 2:19.390 to 2:35.758 Delete 3:41.359 to 3:57.718 Fade the result from 3:34 to 3:51 That's pretty close, at least. One last question for Brian W.... so did the video actually contain the real 45 version? Or is there actually a video edit? Sorry... couldn't tell from your response whether you were implying that the video used a different edit from the 45 (and different from the fake one on YouTube). |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 22 February 2017 at 3:18pm
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I'd like to know the same thing. I think what he meant is the original
video matches the 45, but the YT video has the audio swapped with a new edit. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 22 February 2017 at 4:06pm
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I mean the YouTube video has new audio swapped out. The
video on the old Immaculate Collection home video matched the 45 audio. Actually, the FIRST home video version (from the four-video "Madonna" VHS tape and laserdisc) was a different video edit that used an edit of the dance remix for the audio. This YouTube video is not that edit, though. |
Posted By: Underground Dub
Date Posted: 23 February 2017 at 1:50pm
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The newly edited soundtracks you hear on Madonna's officially uploaded videos originated on 2009's "Celebration - The Video Collection" DVD.
"Celebration" has to be the most poorly executed compilation project by a major artist, and the same haphazard "remastering" and editing found throughout the CD/LP unfortunately extended to the home video release. "Lucky Star" and the ending of "Papa Don't Preach" are especially bad. |