mono Mamas & Papas master tape found
Printed From: Top 40 Music on CD
Category: Top 40 Music On Compact Disc
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URL: https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5477
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Topic: mono Mamas & Papas master tape found
Posted By: Brian W.
Subject: mono Mamas & Papas master tape found
Date Posted: 08 April 2010 at 11:27am
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According to Sundazed, anyway. The conventional wisdom has long been that Dunhill junked all their mono master tapes in the 1970s.
But Sundazed is currently remastering the mono LP of "If You Can Believe Your Eyes and Ears," on vinyl only, as announced on their Facebook page. In response to a poster commenting that he thought the mono master was long gone, they replied: "The master tape is NOT long gone... This was recently recovered from a U.K. vault... and we have first crack at it. Say 'hooray'..." Hopefully someone will issue this on CD... |
Replies:
Posted By: KentT
Date Posted: 08 April 2010 at 5:17pm
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Most likely a UK dub of the original mono tape. Second generation and should be excellent quality. I plan on buying that LP when it's issued. ------------- I turn up the good and turn down the bad! |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 08 April 2010 at 5:50pm
Thought this was interesting: someone over at the Steve Hoffman board who does audio restoration in the UK had this to say about the news:
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Universal have recently been trawling through UK & european archives to replace tapes lost in the fire a couple of years back - this was probably found during that trawl.Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 09 April 2010 at 5:26am
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So does this mean that other Dunhill mono masters may also exist (3 Dog Night, Grass Roots, Steppenwolf)? That would indeed be good news!
I'm curious why the M&P album is being reissued only on vinyl. I for one would love to have these on CD from a tape source. |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 09 April 2010 at 6:32am
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Sundazed should consider releasing these on both LP & CD. I'd be surprised if the LP would out sell the CD. ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 09 April 2010 at 10:52am
I'm quite sure Sundazed only has the rights to release it on vinyl. Since many record companies don't do their own vinyl pressings, they'll allow other people to license albums, but only for vinyl. I have made sure that the superb UK label Now Sounds knows about the mono master. They recently released outstanding remasters of the first two Cowsills albums, complete with bonus tracks of the mono singles sides. ("Indian Lake" and its flip side appear in mono for the first time on CD.) |
Posted By: TomDiehl1
Date Posted: 09 April 2010 at 11:51am
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Only the US company junked their mono tapes....the foreign vaults are probably full of presumed lost mono masters....
As for Sundazed only issuing the album on vinyl, they've been doing a LOT of vinyl-only releases lately, and appear to be trending towards becoming a vinyl-only reissue company. I have two of their recent vinyl-only reissues, the Blues Project - Projections lp and the first lp by the Uniques....both nicely done however the covers are a bit flimsy (the blues project cover already has several small tears in it). I do agree it would be nice to have these reissues on cd too, however. ------------- Live in stereo. |
Posted By: KentT
Date Posted: 10 April 2010 at 6:18am
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Licensing is easier to get for vinyl presently. And that's where the growth market is. ------------- I turn up the good and turn down the bad! |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 12 April 2010 at 11:26am
More interesting posts from BSN:
And another poster added:
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Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 12 April 2010 at 12:03pm
I'd stop well short of saying that vinyl is a "growth market". It's a very small niche market, and that's it. |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 12 April 2010 at 2:31pm
I won't argue your point. But I had an interesting vinyl experience over the weekend: My neighborhood record store (Cheapo Records in St. Paul, near Macalester College) was a bustling place back in the '90s, with separate CD and classical CD shops bookending a small strip mall on one side of the street, and a large vinyl location facing them from the other side. A 2000 fire wiped out the strip mall, and CDs displaced all of the vinyl in the remaining space across the street. The strip mall was quickly rebuilt, but no vinyl returned until a very small space was eventually leased in the new mall, a couple doors down from the rebuilt CD digs. Classical CDs remained in the older space across the street. A couple years ago, the small vinyl store was closed, with some the inventory added to the CD store. While out for a walk Saturday night, I decided to stop in and have a look around. There were still lots of new and used CDs. The classical titles, which had migrated a few years earlier from across the street, were segregated in their own area. But a newish coffee bar within the store had already been permanently closed and the vinyl was gone, with a good chunk of its space now filled with used DVDs. I was about to leave, when I asked the clerk if they'd dumped the vinyl. "No," he said. "It's across the street now. There's more room over there." It was just like the pre-fire setup, with nearly as many LPs as in the old days, and lots of new releases. The only disappointment was that the 45 selection was miniscule compared to the old days. But I left with a pristine Columbia Hall Of Fame 45 "Maybe I'm Amazed" reissue for a couple of bucks. And a few other NM late-'60s new old stock goodies will probably be reeling me in before the day is through. :) |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 12 April 2010 at 7:00pm
But it's undeniable that it's a growing niche market. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 12 April 2010 at 8:39pm
Wow, I didn't realize these Cowsills albums have finally been issued on CD. "Indian Lake" is one of MANY songs I've been waiting to see surface in mono! And I applaud the fantastic news about Mamas & Papas mono masters being uncovered in Europe. The prospect of hearing the mono 45 mixes on CD from pristine master tapes rather than the usual vinyl dubs would be a welcome treat! |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 12 April 2010 at 8:47pm
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True that, but it doesn't sound like these tapes are being utilized to create CDs as of now. ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 11:39pm
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It's comin' out on CD from Sundazed next month!!!
http://www.sundazed.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=2066 - http://www.sundazed.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=20 66 |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 21 October 2011 at 11:03pm
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Got the CD. Good sound, but sadly "Monday Monday" fades out a good five seconds before the 45 does, right before the line "it's here to stay." It seems to fade out to hiss, so it sounds like it was that way on the original album master. (Everyone is presuming this British tape that Sundzed used is the 1966 British dub of the US album master.)
Maybe Roscoe can tell us if the US mono vinyl LP also has "Monday Monday" running 3:03 instead of 3:09. |
Posted By: davidclark
Date Posted: 22 October 2011 at 4:01am
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Brian, how about "California Dreaming"? ------------- dc1 |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 22 October 2011 at 10:26am
Cold ending... there is no fade on that song. |
Posted By: Roscoe
Date Posted: 22 October 2011 at 12:10pm
Both my original Dunhill and Sundazed mono LPs have "Monday Monday" fading at 3:03. Apparently, the mono LP, mono 45 and stereo LP versions all have different lengths. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 22 October 2011 at 12:25pm
Thanks, Roscoe! As I suspected. So the Sundazed CD has the correct mono LP length. Pat, if you add the Sundazed CD to the database, you might want to add a note that the mono LP version runs 3:03. |
Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 23 October 2011 at 6:18pm
What about mix differences between the mono & stereo versions of this? CD is the only M&P single I don't have, and I replaced my mono LP with stereo 40-odd years ago. |
Posted By: bitman
Date Posted: 02 November 2012 at 2:12pm
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I saw the Mamas & Papas Complete Anthology double CD set on Amazon and a number of the cuts are marked 'single version.' So, anyone aware of this set? Are they really the single versions or is it erroneous? Needle drops? If they are needle drops what do they sound like? Thanks!
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Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 02 November 2012 at 6:39pm
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Allmusic.com has audio samples, and most of the songs are in stereo, even for ones that amazon.com lists as "Single Version." ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: Paul C
Date Posted: 09 November 2012 at 12:56pm
I don't know if it's the same set to which you refer (since you mention it being a double disc set), but I have a four disc Mamas & Papas set titled, Complete Anthology, issued by Universal in the UK in 2004. (At the time, Collectors' Choice was selling copies autographed by Michelle Phillips.) There are two tracks on the set described as 'single version', "Creeque Alley" and "Words Of Love". Both are vinyl dubs. As is the case with the All The Leaves Are Brown set, the version presented as the single version of "Creeque Alley" is actually the mono LP version. The disc dubs sound so similar to those on the All The Leaves Are Brown set that I suspect they were copied from this set. As has been discussed elsewhere on this board, some time after ABC Records purchased Dunhill, there was a purge during which just about everything other than the reels containing the stereo LP masters were destroyed. ABC Records was in turn purchased by MCA in the late 1970s. In many (if not all) countries outside the US (including the UK and Canada), the Dunhill material was issued on RCA. People have been wondering for a long time whether mono and 45 masters might still exist in any of these countries. The big question is: When RCA lost the rights to the Dunhill material in these countries after the MCA purchase of ABC, what happened to the tapes of which RCA had physical possession. Did they send them to MCA (now Universal) in each of their respective countries, did they keep them, or did they destroy them? Since the Universal UK set contains vinyl dubs of the mono material, it unfortunately would appear that they do not have the mono tapes. Was it ever revealed where in the UK the mono If You Can Believe Your Eyes And Ears tapes were found? In the Universal vaults or in the RCA vaults? One indication that RCA in Canada no longer has mono tapes is that I have a Canadian RCA re-issue single (most likely pressed in the mid 1970's) that has "I Saw Her Again" on one side and "Creeque Alley" on the other. Although the run times printed on the label are the run times of the 45 versions, both songs on this re-issue are mono versions of the stereo LP versions. [My original Canadian RCA 45 of "I Saw Her Again" is the same as the US 45. I don't have an original Canadian 45 of "Creeque Alley."] |