Tubular Bells 45 version
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Topic: Tubular Bells 45 version
Posted By: Brian W.
Subject: Tubular Bells 45 version
Date Posted: 29 December 2005 at 6:25pm
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According to the databse, the 3:17 version on Super Hits of the 70s Vol 23 is not the 45 version, though it does roughly match the time Whitburn lists. I assume it's the wrong edit???
Anyone know if the 3:18 version on the old 1987 CD Mike Oldfield: A Virgin Compilation, which is not in the database, is the correct 45 version? |
Replies:
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 29 December 2005 at 7:04pm
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good question.........i don't know, but....i can send you an mp3 of the actual 45 and you can compare them yourself and report back on your findings.... ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 29 December 2005 at 7:33pm
| That would be great, thanks. |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 29 December 2005 at 7:44pm
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on it's way in a tick.....do you want a scan of the 45's face??? ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 29 December 2005 at 7:53pm
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just sent it ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 29 December 2005 at 7:56pm
That's okay, Ed. And I got it, thanks! I'll report back when I've compared it with the Super Hits version. |
edtop40 wrote:Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 29 December 2005 at 8:04pm
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the 70's super hits version is NOT the 45 version.........that i know........but check it against your import cd compilation ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 29 December 2005 at 8:22pm
| Well, I don't HAVE that OOP CD I mentioned... but I think I may have this on a Reader's Digest comp and maybe one or two others, so I'll see what I can find out. |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 30 December 2005 at 8:08am
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And I would be interested in knowing the differences between the 45 and the Super Hits version, so please incorporate that into your report.
Thanks! :) ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: Robert
Date Posted: 30 January 2009 at 5:02pm
| Sorry if this has been put to bed and I missed it, but was there a consensus on the "Virgin Compilation " version? A 3:16 version also shows up on "Chilled Spirit: 16 Songs For The Mind Body & Spirit" (Sire). Anybody know about this one? |
Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 31 January 2009 at 1:52pm
| I have 2 copies of this single, a (presumably) stock copy and a promo. The stock copy has the 3:18 version on one side and a 4:39 version on the other. The promo has the 4:39 version (marked Short Version) on one side and a 7:30 long version on the other. I have not verified that the 4:39 version is the same on both singles, they have different matrix #s. |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 31 January 2009 at 2:55pm
| Wow, Hykker, I was never aware of any 4:39/7:30 promo 45! My mono (deadwax "VR-28231-1")/stereo (deadwax "ST-VR-28231-1") promo 45 (confirmed as Virgin 55100) has the exact same, listed (3:18), actual (3:15) version on both sides, and was the only one I ever heard on the radio back in 1974. Hykker, is your promo 45's catalog # also Virgin 55100? (My promo has "Feb 5 1974" stamped right on it, which some stations would do back in the day, to make a note as to when a promo 45 first arrived in to the station, so they'd know, approx. 8 weeks later, that it was likely a "stiff", and could then throw it out to make room for other, newer promos!) I have looked hard for this 45 version on CD for years. I know the song note-for-note, and I have NEVER found any CD, import or domestic, that includes the exact version that I have just documented. None are even close, actually. Years ago, a trusted friend was able to achieve the correct 45 edit for me from the original, "full side of an LP" version. I remember him saying that the 45 was slowed down (vs. the CD version of the LP I provided him), and that he also said that he had to "re-attach" the beginning of the 45 audio onto the end of the 45 to get the correct version! Hykker, would it be possible for you to shoot out an mp3 dub of both sides of your promo 45, to either Todd Ireland (better at these things than I am) or myself, whenever time allows, for further analysis? I would be forever in your debt. I already own a stock 45, and I am assuming that the (4:39) version you mention will be the same one found on my 45. I will report back my findings. Please PM me if you need e-mail info. And thanks for the very valuable info, Hykker! |
Posted By: Robert
Date Posted: 31 January 2009 at 5:05pm
| Not to complicate this anymore than it already is, but I've got several copies of this song - all black & white labels, presumably promos(VR 55100) and the deadwax numbers are: ST-VR 28231-2, ST-VR 28231-3, and ST-VR 28231-4. I have no idea what, if any, differences there are in these; the 3:16 version of TB is on one side and a 4:39 version is on the flip, just like Hykker's stock copy. Perhaps it's part of the LP version, but it bears no resemblance to the 3:16 version. Each of these has NOW THE ORIGINAL THEME FROM 'THE EXCORCIST' underneath the title of the 3:16 version. None of them has a 7:30 version. Maybe I'm wrong in that the B&W label is a stock copy. Gee - life was so simple before there was music... |
Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 01 February 2009 at 9:32am
| The promo copy in question has a different catalog #, E.P.-PR-199 similar to what Atlantic-distributed labels use for promo-only releases. A label scan of the short version is http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff73/hykker/tb-short.jpg - TB-short version and one for the long version http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff73/hykker/tb-long.jpg - TB-long version . You'll notice a date stamp of "Dec 9 1973" on the short version...maybe this release pre-dated the release of the movie since there's no reference to The Exorcist on either side of the record. |
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 01 February 2009 at 9:54am
The movie The Exorcist was released in the U.S. on December 26, 1973. |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 03 February 2009 at 12:09am
| Hykker was extremely kind to supply me with mp3s of both his short and long "late 1973, from a promo EP, before it ever became 'Theme From The Exorcist' versions of Tubular Bells", for my evaluation. (And Robert, yes, the hit 45 stock copies labels for this song were black and white, which only happened rarely. My hit promo 45's mono side label was white, with the typical, Atlantic/Atco/Associated light blue color being used for the promo 45's stereo side label.) Hykker mentioned that he even sort of preferred this earlier "Tubular Bells" version to the later, hit 45 version. I don't know if I'd go that far, but I do also enjoy "New Age" music on occasion, and I found them enjoyable as well. I also concur 100% with Hykker's e-mail assessment to me that his "short version" is simply an edit of his "long version". My determination, however, is that not a single second of audio, from either of these two longer versions, was included on the hit 45. In all honesty, if someone had played me either/both of these two versions, and then asked me to "Name That Tune", the thought of me guessing "Tubular Bells" wouldn't even have crossed my mind, except for the fact that a human voice would occasionally be "instrument-name-dropping", and once he did mention "Tubular Bells". (While listening, I couldn't help but think that these versions were the New Age equivalent of either "Memphis Soul Stew" or "Tighten Up!") My gut is that Hykker's EP is an earlier, entirely different take of the song, because I know the hit 45 can be created from my CD copy of his 1974 LP. But, with "Tubular Bells" taking the entire side of that LP (well over 20:00 long), there is still many "unused hit 45 version" minutes left to utilize, and I will pull/listen to my CD later in the week, searching for any/all of the audio portions included on Hykker's promo. |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 03 February 2009 at 8:01am
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Did we ever pinpoint what the difference was between the "Super Hits of the 70s" version and the correct 45 version? I have both somewhere, but don't have AB-ing software to try to pinpoint it without bouncing all over the place. ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 03 February 2009 at 5:25pm
The first thing that came to mind while I was dubbing it for you was the Bonzo Dog Band's "Intro & The Outro". |
Posted By: Robert
Date Posted: 07 February 2009 at 11:50pm
| Just to answer my own question, "Chilled Spirit: 16 Songs For The Mind Body & Spirit" does not contain the 45 version. It's the same old 3:16 edit that we've been seeing. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 10 February 2009 at 12:38pm
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I've had a chance to listen to the original long promo 45 of "Tubular Bells" running 7:30 (it reminds me a lot of an educational-type record my elementary school music teacher would play for the class to teach us how to identify musical instruments!) and I've concluded that it can almost be re-created from the LP version. I say almost, but more on that in a moment...
As has been established elsewhere, the LP version of "Tubular Bells" runs over 25 minutes long and is subtitled "Part One" (I have Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells album on a Canadian import CD reissue.) The long 7:30 promo 45 is essentially the section from 17:02 to 24:35 on "Part One" of the LP. (The pitch needs to be sped up by approximately :03 to match that of the promo 45.) However, it's not quite possible to accurately replicate the long DJ version from the LP because there is a lingering electric guitar note on the LP at the 17:02 mark that bleeds into the bass guitar notes that follow. These bass notes open the long promo version in standalone form with no electric guitar bleedover. As Jim pointed out, the short 4:39 promo version appears to be an edit of the 7:30 DJ version. However, the opening bass notes on the short DJ 45 are the same as on the long DJ 45 and therefore cannot be extracted from the LP version. |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 20 April 2010 at 8:30pm
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Picking apart this track on the Steve Hoffman board, and thought I'd post my findings:
More crazy edits! The full album version runs 25:28, and all the versions I have on CD are labeled in Pat Downey's book as "neither the 45 or LP version". Have A Nice Day Vol. 23 (1996) runs 3:17 and sounds pretty terrible here - very muffled sound compared to the other versions I have. Must be a very high-generation source tape. There's a version running 4:15 on Time-Life's Sounds Of The Seventies - A Loss For Words (1995) that has decent sound, but I suspect that it's just the first 4:15 of the LP version, because nothing really happens. (HAND clearly has edits, and goes through lots of changes over its length.) Madacy's Rock On 1974 (1996) is digitally identical to A Loss For Words. Disky's 8-CD Greatest Hits Of The '70s (2000) is the same 4:15 version, but with a different analog transfer. And complicating matters even further is a promo CD single, Virgin PRCD 3572, with only one track, denoted as "Edit", with a printed and actual time of 3:20. The sound is infinitely more clear than HAND, but it's edited differently - could this be the actual 45 edit? If I had to pick one version, it would be this promo CD single. I'll be happy to send this promo CD single version around, if it will help clear things up. (I'd also like to know if the 4:15 versions are just the opening 4:15 of the album version.) |
Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 21 April 2010 at 5:27am
Was this an actual re-release of the song (and if so, when?) or just a radio/in-store sampler? Obviously there were no promo CDs in 1974! |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 21 April 2010 at 5:43am
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It looks like it was for radio. It says For Promotional Use Only - Not For Sale, much like the late '80s promo CDs for radio.
Don't know what it's promoting; it says "From the album TUBULAR BELLS available on Virgin Cassettes and Compact Discs. 90589" Mike Oldfield did a Tubular Bells 2 in 1992 (with Trevor Horn?) on Warner Bros. Could this Virgin promo CD be released to capitalize on that? Can anyone pin down the release date for PRCD 3572? |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 21 April 2010 at 7:43am
| Based on other Virgin promo CD releases with similar catalog numbers, it appears that one was put out in 1990. |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 21 April 2010 at 9:02am
| I obtained (and still have) that 1990 promo CD single, hoping for the best. But, edit-wise, it is clearly a million miles away from being the correct 1974 Top 10 45 version. I remember being very disapponted at the time. I believe that 1990 promo CD single was released to promote an Oldfield "Hits" compilation issued around that same time. Probably because I am so used to it, I'll take the 1974 hit mix over the 1990 promo CD single version any day! |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 21 April 2010 at 10:41pm
| I think it's reasonably safe to assume the single master tapes for "Tubular Bells" are missing or lost... Otherwise, why would these reissue labels go through the trouble of repeatedly trying to edit down the full 25:28 album version, albeit incorrectly? |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 29 April 2010 at 9:56am
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Has anyone ever pinpointed exactly what the differences are between the 45 version and the HAND version? ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 29 April 2010 at 8:31pm
| Doug, the HAND version is not even close, either, because it was simply an engineer's uneducated guess. The HAND v will not be any help to you in getting the correct 45v. Forgive me sir, because it has been at least 7+ years since myself/my now-out-of-touch-with digital buddies tackled it. It can be done (although my "experts" inexplicably didn't match up the 45/LP speeds, which made my end result way too fast!) But, if I were trying to pick a song to give a person the maximum "audio agita", I would suggest they try to accurately create the correct 45v for "Tubular Bells!" Even "Ron/CFTP's" chime-in above is not his normal breakdown, which gives you an idea about what this one entails! But what I DO remember is that, despite having a forever-long, (25:28) album version to work with (which is 98% of the problem), the correct 45 ending was nonetheless repeated/spliced on from the beginning 45 notes. Doug, unless you possess note-for-note, wave file comparison technology to utilize, against a 1974 45 and MANY available hours, I believe success is impossible. This board is FULL of digital wizards, and still, I can't think of another Top 10 hit that has YET to be 100% digitally nailed as of today, despite all of its source audio currently existing on digital, can you? And, with over 800 views now, perhaps this one should be elevated to the "Holy Grail Of Top 10 Hit 45 Versions Wanted On Digital" status! |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 30 April 2010 at 9:54am
Jim, you know that once you post a statement like that, I'm going to ask you to please send all needed audio to create the 100% correct version. :D |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 30 April 2010 at 12:05pm
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if anyone can nail it, it'll be aaron!!! ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: eric_a
Date Posted: 30 April 2010 at 2:38pm
Jim: Can you please send the 45v to me too? Aaron: up for a race? :) |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 02 May 2010 at 12:15pm
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Having now heard the 45, I see where Jim is coming from in his analysis. There's a lot wrong with the HAND version. Among the differences (there are definitely others):
A keyboard sequence is repeated at (:18) on the HAND version, while that sequence is removed from the 45. The HAND version is slightly faster than the 45. The sequence that begins at (:47) of the HAND version doesn't start until the (1:27) mark of the 45. The sequence with the guitar over the bells (not the guitar solo) happens twice on the HAND version, and only once on the 45. The bass keyboard solo following the guitar solo runs about 45 seconds on the HAND version, it only runs about 25 seconds on the 45. The HAND edit completely botches the ending. And there's quite a bit of audio on the 45 not on the HAND version (notably the section from (:56) to (1:27)). As stated, there are (probably) more, but I think we get the idea. ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 06 June 2010 at 4:42pm
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I just finished massacring Mike Oldfield's 26-minute epic. I now have an exact replica of the original 45 version. There's no denying it--this one was a nightmare to edit (no pun intended). It's not so much that there are an overwhelming number of edits; it's just very hard to find the exact parts needed, since so much of the song is repeated. It also doesn't help that there isn't any percussion, which is a typical spot for easily finding edit points.
The good news is that the last 18 minutes of the LP version aren't even used in the single version. If anyone wants a copy of my re-created version, please send a PM. |
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 07 June 2010 at 7:48am
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Aaron just sent me his recreation and it sounds great!
Nice work, Aaron! Thanks for taking the time and effort to finally nail this one. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 07 June 2010 at 7:57am
| My pleasure, Paul. It actually sounds quite a bit better than the original 45 since there is far less hiss. By the time they were done creating the original edit, it was probably 2 or 3 generations removed from the master recording. Given the very low audio of most of the song, they had to pump up the levels significantly, thus also raising the volume on a few layers of tape hiss. |
Posted By: JL328
Date Posted: 16 May 2011 at 2:01pm
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I'm a long time lurker who just recently wrote Mr. Downey for a password. I've been reading these boards religiously ever since I discovered them about a year and a half ago and now hope to be able to contribute to the discussions.
With regard to "Tubular Bells," there is a version called "Tubular Bells (From the Exorcist)" that runs 3:16 and is available on iTunes from a digital album called Tubular Bells (Deluxe Version). It is my understanding that the digital album containing this 3:16 track is exclusive to iTunes and unavailable on other sites such as Amazon. I purchased this track and have listended to it next to the short version (A-Side) of the vinyl 45 single and they sound identical to me. I also did a visual comparison of the digital track and the vinyl 45 using Audacity and they appear to be identical there as well. Has anyone else purchased this iTunes version of "Tubular Bells?" And can anyone confirm that this is indeed a digital incarnation of the elusive short 45 version of "Tubular Bells?" |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 17 May 2011 at 7:08am
------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 17 May 2011 at 11:18pm
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Welcome to the board, JL328!
I purchased the iTunes track. It sounds like the 45 version. Aaron agreed after a cursory listen. There is a lot of ground hum present that I'm not sure if it was on the 45 or not. Turns out this track is not an iTunes exclusive, though. It was issued on CD in 2010 on a UK progressive rock compilation called "Wondrous Stories," available in both two- and four-disc sets. I compared the "Wondrous Stories" version to the iTunes track in an audio editor, and they are digital clones, except the CD version is approximately 1.0 decibal louder and is clipped at the loudest part of the song. Also, the CD version fades a hair before the iTunes version, though not before the music ends -- right after the final quiet "buh!" note at the very end, it just quickly fades to silence, whereas the iTunes version goes on about a second longer. The background hum is quite severe on both, though. It may be a HAIR less prominent on the iTunes version (probably slightly differet EQ). But the strange thing is, it seems to be gone at the 2:43 mark, right as the big crescendo fades to a microsecond of silence, then the hum is back as the piano starts in again. Odd. You have to wonder if this actually was on the master tape and is just not audible on the 45 for some reason. If someone wants to send me a 45 dub, I'd like to compare them directly. But Aaron's custom edit has got to have better sound quality. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 18 May 2011 at 10:03am
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Brian, I'm sure I have the 45 dub on my PC. I'll send it over. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: Steve Carras
Date Posted: 20 January 2014 at 10:54am
Not to mention ANOTHER full album side on side B.;) ------------- You know you're really older when you think that younger singer Jesse McCartney's related in anyway to former Beatle Paul McCartney. |
Posted By: Steve Carras
Date Posted: 08 May 2015 at 9:02pm
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Found this on YouTube. THE original single version according to what it says, and what I remember
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gP9bCkmykAs - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gP9bCkmykAs ------------- You know you're really older when you think that younger singer Jesse McCartney's related in anyway to former Beatle Paul McCartney. |
Posted By: Steve Carras
Date Posted: 09 May 2015 at 1:16pm
Just looking at all of this, and listening to my mp3 (from SoulSeek) of what says "Have a Nice Day", but the version fits the description of the 45 (the sequence mentioned at 1:27 of HAND (Have a Nice Day) IS at 1:27 of this particular file, no 0:18 keyboard sequence, but in my last post here, I posted a YouTube link that DOES have the right edit, or so it claims, maybe I better email for the right version.....:)) ------------- You know you're really older when you think that younger singer Jesse McCartney's related in anyway to former Beatle Paul McCartney. |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 09 May 2015 at 4:00pm
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Steve, I just listened to the video of the "purported" single edit. The editor's
skills aren't nearly as advanced as many of the editors here, and something does sound "funky" with the audio used on there, but the guy has the basic edits correct. I saw your comment today on the video, and I think I know what's confusing you here. You obtained an mp3 from a source that *claims* it includes the Have A Nice Day CD version. I assure you that is bad information. It is very risky to believe such claims. If you know what to listen for, the HAND version and the 1974 45v are not really all that similar. I am shooting you out the 45v, so you can finally close the book on this one for yourself. |
Posted By: Steve Carras
Date Posted: 09 May 2015 at 7:45pm
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I got it....it actually matches what I had, except the guitar solo starts a bit earlier on my mp3 and just after 2:00 on yours..thanks. ------------- You know you're really older when you think that younger singer Jesse McCartney's related in anyway to former Beatle Paul McCartney. |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 27 September 2015 at 9:39am
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It may have taken forty plus years, but per Pat the 45 version of this instrumental is on the recent various artists release Now That's What I Call Halloween. ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 29 December 2016 at 10:45pm
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For anyone interested in the non-hit 7:30 promo 45 version, it can be edited from the 25-minute LP version. Here are instructions starting with Virgin 90589 (the only CD in Pat's database with the full 25:28 version):
- Delete 0:00 to 17:04.505. - With what you have left, copy 0:00.693 to 0:03.456. - Paste the copied segment onto the beginning of the file. - With what you have remaining, remove 7:32.5 to the end. - Fade out from 7:22 to 7:32. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 26 December 2018 at 9:49am
As a matter of fact, this promo CD does contain the proper US 7" edit with two differences: 1) The promo CD runs about 1.5% faster, and 2) The promo CD fades slightly later than the 45. I have a theory as to why this is. It's possible there is a lower generation tape that contains the proper 45 edit but without the ending (which is repeated from the intro). The promo CD single has the ending starting just a hair later than the actual US 45, so perhaps a lower source tape was used and then the intro re-attached to the ending to complete the song. This would also explain the later fade. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 26 December 2018 at 9:54am
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Also, a Mike Oldfield collector says that the version on Have A Nice Day Vol. 23 is the same edit as found on the 1987 promo CD A Virgin Compilation. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: Tom Daly
Date Posted: 05 March 2019 at 9:08pm
| Didn't anyone notice? The REAL issue with the Rhino CD is that the LP version was simply edited to approximate the edits on the 45, but the 7" single contained dynamic compression, for which there was no need on the LP. Without the compression, you can't possibly have the 45 version, no matter how you edit the album version! |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 07 March 2019 at 12:51pm
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You're right that there is a slight amount of dynamic range compression on the 45, but there are varying degrees of dynamic compression on all kinds of CDs. The most extreme example is brickwalling. Sure, you could make an argument that because more compression was added to one version or another, it's not exactly the same as what may have appeared on the vinyl. Overall, though, the amount of compression added to the "Tubular Bells" 45 is not enough to give it a totally different sound. It's definitely the same mix on both the LP and 45. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 08 March 2019 at 8:41am
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I agree with Aaron. The difference in compression between the 45 and what's available on CD is insignificant here. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |