thunderclap newman something in the air
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Topic: thunderclap newman something in the air
Posted By: edtop40
Subject: thunderclap newman something in the air
Date Posted: 16 July 2011 at 7:01am
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my commercial 45 for the thunderclap newman song "something in the air" issued as track 2656 states the run time as 3:53 and does indeed run that length...i have a cdr copy of the song from somewhere and it sounds identical.....the db states there is an lp/45 difference, but i cannot hear any......if anyone is familiar with the differences i'd love a tutorial....thx edtop40 ------------- edtop40 |
Replies:
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 16 July 2011 at 6:05pm
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Happy to help, Ed, as it is quite possibly my favorite song of all time. In
late '68. The Who's Pete Townshend put these three guys together and signed them to his "Track" label: His former personal chauffeur, songwriter/vocalist/drummer/rhythm guitarist John "Speedy" Keen (whose last name was mis-spelled as "Keene" on the hit 45), pianist Andy "Thunderclap" Newman, and the then-15-year-old lead guitar prodigy, Jimmy McCulloch (later of "Wings"; died at 26, in '79). Townsend played bass on all recordings (as "Bijou Drains"). Other musicians were brought in to supplement the three of them during tours/TV appearances. Keen was a very reluctant vocalist, and only finally agreed to sing lead on "Something In The Air" after much convincing/prodding by Townshend. The LP and 45 versions you ask about (both in stereo, and both included on their "Hollywood Dream" CD) are quite similar. But to my ears, Ed, 100% of the mix differences occur during Newman's lengthy piano instrumental segment, about two-thirds into the record. I believe the 45 version has less strings present during this segment, which emphasized the piano play itself much more. FYI, the video is a period piece classic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8zmkzshUvE |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 16 July 2011 at 8:42pm
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jim, as always thanks for the direction.....i will take a re-listen ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: TomDiehl1
Date Posted: 17 July 2011 at 12:44pm
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The stereo 45 mix is an entirely different mix than the LP mix, at least in terms of left-center-right stereo placement.
There is also a mono promo 45 mix, I don't have my copy handy at the moment, though. I also believe there may have been a mono/stereo promo for a reissue of the song but I don't have that one either. ------------- Live in stereo. |
Posted By: davidclark
Date Posted: 17 July 2011 at 3:33pm
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is the mono version from Rhino "The British Invasion: The History Of British
Rock Vol. 9" one of the promo mixes, or perhaps there was a stereo and mono US 45 or a UK mono 45? ------------- dc1 |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 17 July 2011 at 8:18pm
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I don't know what to do here. In some previous instances when I've felt
compelled to respond to a post from Tom Diehl, I've soon received a less- than-cheerful, follow-up PM from him about it. I really hope it doesn't happen this time, Tom. I'm neither mad at you, nor meaning to be critical/disrespectful to you in any way. I always try to be respectful to everyone here, and you, Tom have made many solid contributions to Pat's board over the years. Tom, you are right when you say that the left- center-right stereo placements are WAY different between the stereo LP and 45 versions - I'd listened to both mixes from my CD before I even responded to Ed's initial query. But that being said (and without headphones), to most folks (like Ed, myself, and many other detail- oriented listeners over the years to my former, 1977-2007 60s/70s oldies show, none of whom EVER knew there were both stereo 45 & LP mixes), my overall experience has been that Ed's question here is both quite legitimate and not isolated. I know one thing I've always personally tried to do on here is to wait until I have located/listened to my original vinyl before responding to a post. Hey, we all mis-file vinyl sometimes, but I know that the detail-aholics on here love specifics, and weren't crazy about my initial, "it's around here somewhere" answers. How was that vague answer of mine really helping anybody, I thought? So I learned my lesson, and I now put the "find the vinyl first" time/effort in, before I respond to a post. For the record, I stand by my earlier comments, Ed, regarding the instrumental differences between the two mixes. FYI, here are the song's full 1969 commercial/promo 45 particulars: -Thunderclap Newman--"Something In The Air" (stock 45 is stereo) (Track 2656) (listed 3:53; actual 3:55) (deadwax "ST-A-17283 - 1") -Thunderclap Newman--"Something In The Air" (promo 45 is mono, with the same flip as the stock 45, "Wilhemina") (Track 2656) (listed & actual 3:53) (deadwax "A-17283 - 1") Tom, I also have/knew that the 1969 promo 45 was is mono. But Ed's a 99% "commercial release" guy, so I tried to slant my reply to his particular interest: the stereo stock 45. Finally, I do also own the late 1970 promo 45 (Track 2769; re-released due to its inclusion in the film "The Strawberry Statement"), but it didn't seem relevant to use in my reply to Ed because the song only "Bubbled Under" during that release. And, as Ringo always says, "Peace and love to everyone!" :) (P.S. to David Clark: Yes, David, the mono "History Of British Rock - Vol. 9" version does sound like the mono promo 45 to me. But it runs just (3:50), and to me does sound just a tad faster than my promo 45 does.) (P.S. to Pat: Pat, "Something In The Air" did also get some renewed, 9 & 10/1973 airplay in Buffalo, during still another Track/MCA 45 release of it (b/w "Hollywood #1"), so your db is correct to mention it in that regard. But its 1970 "Bubbling..." airplay was more extensive, and included the St. Louis and San Diego markets, among others.) |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 17 July 2011 at 9:16pm
I have both promo and stock copies of the August, 1973 reissue on Track/MCA 60132. For the sake of completeness, listed times are (2:45) and (3:55) for the short/long, stereo/stereo DJ 45 and (3:55) for the stereo stock 45. |
jimct wrote:Posted By: TomDiehl1
Date Posted: 17 July 2011 at 9:38pm
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I dont think your post was necessary Jim. Any time I try to contribute anything here (however miniscule it might be) I get crapped on, or no one comments on my findings at all. A recent request I had on here for a copy of a song off an LP source that had been discussed on here also went largely ignored.
Jim, I was not wrong in stating that (for me) the biggest difference between the lp and 45 versions is the stereo placement. I think im going to just have to avoid this site for a while. Bye for now. ------------- Live in stereo. |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 17 July 2011 at 11:06pm
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Does anyone have any constructive criticism for me, as to how not to trigger
this repeat anger from Tom? Where did I say he was wrong? He was correct. On my father's grave, I've tried everything I know to treat Tom exactly the way I'd treat a friend, and would want to be treated myself. This has basically been what I get whenever he PMs me after I reply. All I did in my previous post was to poke fun at my own numerous Board shortcomings, which I've tried to learn from. Jeez.... |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 18 July 2011 at 7:44am
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As per Pat's rules for this board:
Rule #1 Let's be civil and not criticize other members or their opinions. Jim, you may not have realized it, but I'm sure that Tom - as did I - interpreted your singling him out upthread as personal criticism, which he felt was not necessary. The line was crossed when the matter was taken public, as opposed to keeping such differences limited to personal messages, which is where they should remain. It's important for all members to remember that the differences in the way each of us perceives sound are just as important as the anomalies we discover between certain vinyl pressings or the differences in some CD production runs. Comparing those differences in perception should be part of the fun. Just remember to keep the discussion objective, as per Pat's Rule #2. Tom, I wouldn't necessarily equate a lack of comments or a non-response for a vinyl LP dub with being ignored. I've contributed timing info or dubs whenever possible, but will do so only when I actually have the item in question. We all make mistakes here, and I've made my share. As a result, I've vowed to be as thorough as possible in analyzing a particular subject, and even then, I may not always hear things correctly (witness the "Timothy (Revised Lyric)" faux pas.) We can only report what each of us hears and go from there. |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 18 July 2011 at 3:14pm
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Appreciate your perspective, John. I thank you for it. I just didn't know
how to reply to this thread without 100% ruffling the feathers of someone I'd angered before, and knew beforehand was coming again. To be honest, I still don't. My "preamble" was my best effort to, in fact, be civil. Is a partially different perspective "criticism?" I don't ever take it that way myself. My past experiences with him had shown that even when I didn't mention him by name in threads he'd been a part of, mega-anger still followed, via PM. Thought I'd tried that way already. I learned in college that doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is insanity. So I took a different approach this time, hoping for better results - to no avail. But, on second thought, I suppose me getting angry PM after angry PM from one guy, going forward, is still far better than having it all air here. So that's how I will proceed, going forward. My apologies to all, including Tom. Over and out. |
Posted By: TomDiehl1
Date Posted: 18 July 2011 at 5:00pm
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Jim I still do not understand why you attacked me on here. All I tried to do was add to the discussion. I will no longer add anything to any discussion from now on if thats what you want. I have no idea why you had to even bring me up, and I think this whole discussion needs to be deleted and started over from scratch. ------------- Live in stereo. |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 23 May 2014 at 7:55pm
(still love it after all these years). ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 25 November 2014 at 7:50am
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my commercial 45 issued as track 2656 contains the mono
version on one side and the stereo version on the other.....the 1969 mono/stereo 45 thread says the 45 was originally issued in stereo.....which was the A- side?....the mono or stereo version?..................the run out groove info on the mono side is 'A-17283-1' and on the stereo side it's 'ST-A-17283'... ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 25 November 2014 at 10:33pm
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Ed, if your Track 2656 45 has white labels, it's a promo copy. Keep in mind that the Atlantic family of labels circa 1969 - including Track - did not typically bear any promotional or "not for sale" designations on the labels of their white-label promo 45s. This link shows the Track 2656 white-label promo 45:
http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=3604279 The commercial Track 2656 45 has black labels with silver print (and "Wilhemina" on the B-side.) |
Posted By: 80smusicfreak
Date Posted: 25 November 2014 at 11:48pm
Actually, it shows the white-label promo of Track 2769 (not 2656) - which is the same version that TomDiehl1 described in his post in the "List of mono and Stereo 45s - 1969" thread:
|
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 26 November 2014 at 6:05am
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thanks for the help guys.....after looking at the label
again more carefully, it is clearly track 2769 and NOT 2656....sorry for the confusion....now to ebay to buy the correct commercial 45!!!...........thx all!! ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 26 November 2014 at 10:52am
D'oh! So it is! Thanks for the correction. At least Ed is now on the right Track. [insert assorted groans here] |
Posted By: 80smusicfreak
Date Posted: 26 November 2014 at 4:44pm
Ha - good choice of words. :-) Still can't believe Ed faked us all out on this one - and here I was starting to think he actually had a very rare/valuable collectible, lol... :-p |
Posted By: Indy500
Date Posted: 19 August 2019 at 5:14pm
| Making a Woodstock themed CD. Anybody know the edit points for the 2:45 promo? I've played around with cutting out the piano section but would love to know the exact points. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 19 August 2019 at 7:11pm
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Check your email inbox, Indy. I had thought about trying to figure out the edit points, but I think I'm hearing mix differences (at least left/center/right placement) that are not the same on the stereo 45 mix or the stereo LP mix. Is it possible there are three different stereo mixes? ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 19 August 2019 at 10:23pm
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I'm a big collector of short promo edits hopefully it can
be recreated. ------------- John Gallagher Erie, PA https://www.johngallagher.com" rel="nofollow - John Gallagher Wedding & Special Event Entertainment / Snapblast Photo Booth |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 19 August 2019 at 10:42pm
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Was the short promo created in 1973? Or, did I miss
something. I just spent some time on Discogs and the only U.S. promo 45's listed from 1969 have the listed time of 3:53. ------------- John Gallagher Erie, PA https://www.johngallagher.com" rel="nofollow - John Gallagher Wedding & Special Event Entertainment / Snapblast Photo Booth |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 19 August 2019 at 11:43pm
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It's the 1973 short/long promo 45 issued by MCA records. Yah Shure
mentioned it in an earlier post. I only have one side dubbed to my hard drive, but I suppose it's possible a new stereo mix was created in '73 when it bubbled under. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: Indy500
Date Posted: 20 August 2019 at 4:25pm
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I was using the mono mix to edit so stereo mixes shouldn't make a difference but if the promo was not created until 1973 than I guess I can't use it for a 1969 themed CD.
Regards |
Posted By: Archives Guy
Date Posted: 21 September 2023 at 6:14pm
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Does anyone have the edit points for the 1973 2:45 promo of
"Something In The Air?" Thanks in advance!! |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 22 September 2023 at 10:00am
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I picked this one apart as best as I can.
Extreme-panned stereo LP version (3:54) I assume that this is the vinyl LP version, but can't confirm. The panning in this version is extreme. The first four seconds are panned completely on the left; there's nothing at all in the right channel until the bass kicks in at 0:05. In the honking/clapping part from 2:20 to 2:50, the honking horn is panned completely to the right. I'm sure there are other examples, too. The stereo LP version first appeared on CD on Polydor's 1991 reissue of the 1969 Thunderclap Newman album Hollywood Dream. It sounds excellent here, with low-generation source tapes, a nice EQ, plenty of dynamic range, and no obvoius artifacts of added noise reduction on the fade. (The 1991 CD was mastered by Dennis Drake, so it's not surprising that it sounds good.) The same analog transfer is used on:
I found a YouTube video of a https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JUU1-gjsBs - 45 being played that includes this version. I can't tell if it's a UK 45 or a US 45, and I don't know if there's a difference between the two. This version sounds like the same overall mix as the stereo LP version, but with a narrowed soundstage. (Both sound the same to my ears, if you mono them out.) This version has the first four seconds panned gently (not completely) to the left. In the honking/clapping part from 2:20 to 2:50, the honking horn is panned gently (not completely) to the right. And so forth. I found this narrowed-soundstage version on MCA's low-budget multi-artist Classic Rock Vol. 3 (1989). It sounds excellent here, with great dynamic range, nice EQ, and no evidence of added noise reduction on the fade. The same analog transfer is used on:
Mono 45 version (3:51) I don't think there was a mono version of the LP, so any mono version would be a mono 45 version. To my ears, the mono 45 version sounds like a fold-down of one the above stereo versions (doesn't matter which one). The mono version on Rhino's British Invasion Vol. 9 (1991) runs a little faster than the stereo versions listed above, and is EQ'd with a whole lot of top end. The same analog transfer is used on:
I can confirm that this is what plays on Track 2656. It's on CD, and is labeled as "Single Version" on Polydor's 1991 reissue of the 1969 Thunderclap Newman album Hollywood Dream. At first I thought it was just one channel of the LP version, but it's mixed in stereo. The first four seconds are essentially centered. In the honking/clapping part from 2:20 to 2:50, the honking horn is completely absent! During the piano breakdown, the shaky instrument drops in volume, then rises back up again. My recommendations For the extreme-panned stereo version (which I assume is the stereo LP version), the full-length Thunderclap Newman album Hollywood Dream (1991) sounds great. If you'd prefer a compilation, go with Time-Life's 2-CD Singers And Songwriters Vol. 6 The 1960s (2000). For the narrowed-soundstage stereo version (which appears on a 45 somewhere), go with MCA's Classic Rock Vol. 3 (1989). For the mono 45 version, go with Rhino's British Invasion Vol. 9 (1991). For the stereo 45 version that's missing some elements, go with the "Single Version" on Polydor's 1991 reissue of the 1969 Thunderclap Newman album Hollywood Dream. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 24 September 2023 at 12:57pm
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The MusicProf has the wide panned version posted on his
YouTube channel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHo0XOkmFzM ------------- John Gallagher Erie, PA https://www.johngallagher.com" rel="nofollow - John Gallagher Wedding & Special Event Entertainment / Snapblast Photo Booth |
Posted By: Bill Cahill
Date Posted: 25 September 2023 at 4:05pm
| My DJ copy of the 1973 2:45 edit of "Something in the Air" actually runs 2:54. |