Gloria - Laura Branigan
Printed From: Top 40 Music on CD
Category: Top 40 Music On Compact Disc
Forum Name: Chat Board
Forum Description: Chat away but please observe the chat board rules
URL: https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6460
Printed Date: 28 April 2025 at 2:36pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.07 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Gloria - Laura Branigan
Posted By: Fetta
Subject: Gloria - Laura Branigan
Date Posted: 26 September 2011 at 8:14pm
|
I apologize if this has been discussed before (I did a search and it didn't come up) but I just realized that there are 3 different versions of "Gloria" by Laura Branigan.
There is the commercial copy which clocks at 4:50; the dj copy which clocks in at 3:50 and I just pulled the promo 12" and never realized that there is a long version that clocks in at 5:53. This version is interesting because it deletes the build up intro that is on the 45 version. Is anyone else aware of this version? Has it appeared on any CD and can it be created from either of the 45 versions. I'd be happy to send a needle drop if anyone is interested. Maybe this is old news to the board but I never realized the long promo 12" version before. -Jeff |
Replies:
Posted By: budaniel
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 6:20am
| I have the 12" version on the double vinyl LP from Atlantic called "Dance Traxx". They also released a volume 2 that made it to CD (the CD had 12" mixes, the vinyl was on lp and had radio edits), but volume one, unfortunately, has never made it to CD. And it always annoyed me that the buildup is omitted from the 12" mix! Such an important part of the whole song. |
Posted By: 995wlol
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 7:58am
| I tracked down the 12" single about a year ago and was very disappointed. Not only is the buildup omitted, but it sounds like they just copied and pasted sections from the LP version to stretch out the length. I didn't notice any additional isolated instruments, effects, or other mix differences. So, my guess is that it could be re-created from the LP version. |
Posted By: Fetta
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 8:38am
|
Interesting..... My only guess as to why they would omit the intro would be because the 12" was most likely intended for DJ's who would be mixing the song out of another song and would have probably moved passed the point of the intro to begin their mix.
Just a thought. |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 27 September 2011 at 8:40pm
|
I think so, Fetta. I recall the 45 and 12" version of The
Brothers Johnson's "Strawberry letter #23". It also chops off the music box intro. ------------- |
Posted By: budaniel
Date Posted: 28 September 2011 at 6:24am
| Unfortunately, even without the intro, the 12" is not mixer-friendly. 12" mixes usually have an extended, minimal extended intro of the rhythm track and maybe the bass. The Gloria 12" comes smashing in with the full out orchestration and would be really jarring if mixed in from another song. |
Posted By: Fetta
Date Posted: 28 September 2011 at 9:05am
|
Totally agree with you budaniel but there were plenty of 12" in the 70's and 80s that didn't always give you a great intro to mix into. I can think of a ton of them off hand ("Boogie Wonderland" "There But For The Grace of God", etc.)
I wasn't djing in the 80's when Gloria was a big hit but I always felt that there never was enough kick to it. It does fine for radio but at a club, (like I said I wasn't there then) but I feel like it was missing something.....maybe a harder driving beat... Just my opinion. -Jeff |
Posted By: budaniel
Date Posted: 28 September 2011 at 9:55am
| yeah, it's really not a 'dance' song, just an 'uptempo' song. which is what's odd about the 12" mix leaving off the intro to me. in the 80s, 12" singles became so mainstream that they were being created heavily for consumers as 'extended versions' more than 'dance remixes.' And Gloria is definitely just an extended version. |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 28 September 2011 at 11:46am
|
To Budaniel & Fetta, et al.:
Oh it was a 'dance' song. Oh it was a 'club' record. That song was HUGE on the dancefloor in that aforementioned extended version [Atlantic promo DMD 338 had the album version on the b-side]. But I know what you're talking about. I remember when it was first being promoted to the clubs, before radio got its push. I remember thinking it was too midrangey, not enough beat, etc. But it took off, swiftly, & really appealed to just about every type of clubgoer even before radio got ahold of it. Andy |
Posted By: Fetta
Date Posted: 15 January 2013 at 6:46am
|
Looks like the 12" mix has made it onto CD.......
After EdisonLiite posted the thread about "Haven't Stopped Dancing Yet", I checked out the Gold Legion website, and they have recently released a Expanded Edition of "Branigan" which includes the 12" mix of "Gloria" They also released an expanded version of "Self Control" that also includes some 12" mixes..... but from the looks of it, they did not include the Guitar- less intro version of "Self Control". |
Posted By: budaniel
Date Posted: 15 January 2013 at 6:56am
| The Gold Legion discs have not been released yet. They do amazing reissues, but they are infamous for changing release dates and not updating their site. I've had the Suzi Lane on backorder for about 2 years--when it was originally supposed to be released. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 15 January 2013 at 6:53pm
| Has the 12" of "Gloria" never been on any other CD compilations before? I would have thought it had by now. |
Posted By: musicmanatl
Date Posted: 15 January 2013 at 8:57pm
|
I have a 192 kbps mp3 version if anyone wants to hear it. DM me.
I have Suzi Lane and Cory Daye on back order with Gold Legion too. They've charged my credit card but no CDs. I emailed them on Sunday about this and no response so far. Frank |
Posted By: MMathews
Date Posted: 15 January 2013 at 9:09pm
|
I too was very disappointed in that 12" as soon as i got
it. I hated the intro chopped off, no remixing, just loop segments to extended it and as Andrew pointed out, it was all midrange, no emphasis at all on the beat. Might have sounded good in clubs but it sounded dead on my turntable. I remember 'KTU in NY made their own extended edit, as they would often do, and that was even done better than that 12" was, at least to my ears. MM |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 15 January 2013 at 11:07pm
|
May as well stick with the single version and do your own
extended version. ------------- |
Posted By: Indy500
Date Posted: 18 May 2013 at 10:10am
| The Goldlegion Self Control is out now so if you want her debut album with the 12" Gloria it would be a good time to order as it is a limited edition. |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 18 May 2013 at 1:03pm
|
Indy, I know you meant well with your 3-4 different, "Buy these Goldlegion
Branigan CDs now - they're limited edition" posts. After seeing your latest one, I finally did just place my order. (Also ordered two others.) Then, five minutes later, I went back and re-read the earlier posts in this thread. Others mention things like a 2 year + Goldlegion backorder delay, and ignored Goldlegion customer service e-mail replies. I now *totally* regret placing this Branigan order through them! Indy, based on your repeated "Buy Goldlegion" posts on the Branigan discs, I assumed this company was honorable. But some earlier posts also specifically mention that Goldlegion does the ONE thing that I view as the #1 on-line consumer "red flag." They bill your credit card *before* they ship out the CDs. That only happened to me one other time. Again, very small label. And I never did get those discs....... Indy, as a big 12" version fan yourself, I know you would personally like to see more of these types of releases issued. And, towards that end, you'd clearly like the ones already released by them to sell well. I understand that. But please don't keep repeatedly steering us toward a company where others here have had issues with! Common sense says that two years is simply too long a delay, to not automatically have their money refunded. This is only my opinion here, and I'm not sure I'm right. But we're supposed to "have" each other's backs here, not steer others to a high- risk on-line operation, as Goldlegion now appears to me to be..... |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 18 May 2013 at 1:32pm
Oh it's much worse than that, Jim. They bill your credit card *before* they have a release date, *before* they press the CDs or booklet, *before* they finalize the track listing and as far as I can tell, *before* they even know if they will be able to license the product from the owner. I paid for Self Control + the first Branigan album + Cheryl Ladd CD 6 months ago - the latter 2 still haven't been released, and I'm hoping it's only an 8 or 9 month delay on the Cheryl Ladd CD at this point, but it could be much longer! |
jimct wrote:Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 18 May 2013 at 3:01pm
| Paul got his "Self Control" CD from them already. I doubt Indy had any idea that people have been having problems with Gold Legion. I had never heard that before today. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 18 May 2013 at 3:12pm
|
You actually can order the "Self Control" CD through Amazon. It's fulfilled by a company called "CD Taxi," but that company gets excellent user reviews. That may not do any good for people who already ordered, but if you do have to get a refund from your credit card company, this might be another option to re-order. (I'll warn you that Paul told me the CD is a bit brickwalled, though.)
http://www.amazon.com/Control-Remaster-Expanded-Laura-Branigan/dp/B00CJMJ9QI/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1368914895&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=self+control+gold+legion - Self Control (Remaser and Expanded) |
Posted By: Indy500
Date Posted: 18 May 2013 at 5:11pm
|
I agree with the concerns expressed. I placed my order two months ago and did notice that they billed before shipping. I don't care for that practice either. But keep in mind:
1) Self Control is now shipping. 2) It is available on Amazon. 3) These are limited to 1000 CDs so if you're going to wait until release date to order you better hope no more than 999 Laura Branigan fans opt to pre-order. I don't wish to see anyone here get ripped off but I also would hate to see anyone here miss out on an opportunity to purchase a limited item with exclusive material because they didn't know about it. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 18 May 2013 at 11:22pm
|
I've recently ordered several CD titles through Gold Legion's website, including Laura Branigan's Self Control disc, and fortunately my items were shipped in a timely manner. I received them within a week.
My advice to anyone considering purchasing CDs from Gold Legion's website is to make sure the titles you wish to buy are specifically listed as being "in stock". The problem evidently occurs when ordering a "pre-release" title directly from Gold Legion because these folks have a propensity to continually push back release dates. (The release date for Laura Branigan disc, for example, had been delayed numerous times.) I'm sorry to hear about all the bad experiences by fellow chat board members and sincerely hope you get your CDs soon. I will say it's a very bad business practice on Gold Legion's part to be charging your credit card prior to shipping your items. Very bad. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 19 May 2013 at 8:24am
| But when I ordered the 5 CDs in December, MOST said that they were in stock (at least back then), like Cheryl Ladd, which still hasn't been manufactured yet. I received the 2 truly in-stock items a couple months after ordering, the 3rd one ("Self Control") this week (after 6 months). I do think I'll get the Branigan I within a month or two, but I just have this fear that Gold Legion will go out of business before I receive the 5th one (C Ladd), which will make it harder to get a refund from them or my CC company. |
Posted By: Smokin' TomGary
Date Posted: 20 May 2013 at 6:51pm
|
I have Atlantic blue label promo 45 (4048) with two versions:
Long Version Deadwax STA-40951-2 has a printed and actual time of 4:50. Additional deadwax printed "Mastered at Allen Zentz L.A., Calif." Short Version Deadwax STA-41578-1 has a printed time of 3:41; 3:49 actual. Additional deadwax printed "Mastered at Allen Zentz L.A., Calif." |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 11 August 2013 at 8:03pm
|
The commercial 45 and the LP are both the 4:50 long version.
The promo 45 is the 3:49 short version. The short version can be edited down from the long version by removing the 56 beats from 2:59 to 3:24, removing the 64 beats from 3:53 to 4:23, and shortening the fade by about 7 seconds. Long version The Laura Branigan single-LP CDs are pretty hard to come by, and I don't have Branigan. The first reasonably-priced disc to have the long version was Sandstone's Rock The First Vol. 3 (1992). Sound quality is good. The same analog transfer is used on Priority's Mega Hits Dance Classics Vol. 12 (1993), but it's too loud and clips a lot. The version on Swaitek's 50-CD promo The A List Disc 11 (1994) sounds sorta close to Rock The First, and doesn't seem to have any noise reduction. The 1995 Greatest Hits sounds quite close to Rock The First but the fade is shorter by a second or two. This makes me think that Rock The First uses the same analog transfer as Branigan, but I can't confirm. Finally, Bill Inglot did a new analog transfer for Rhino's 7-CD Like Omigod (2002). It's a little too loud and clips quite a bit, but it seems to use lower-generation source tapes than all the earlier discs. The soundstage is better defined than the earlier discs - listen for placement of the hi-hat, which is crystal clear on Like Omigod, but is a little blurry on everything else. Overall, I recommend Like Omigod for the long LP and commercial 45 version. The tempo is 131.3 BPM throughout on all of the above discs - it's a live drummer playing to a click track. Short version The first place the short version appeared was on Warner Special Products' 2-CD Feel Good Rock (1989). Sound is good, but it's not the lowest-generation source tape. Tempo is 131.3 BPM throughout. There is a trainload of compilations that all use the same analog transfer as Feel Good Rock:
------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 11 August 2013 at 8:11pm
|
Oh, I forgot to mention that there a version running about
4:18 on EMI Australia's 5-CD Eighties Complete Vol. 1 (1997). Don't know what to make of this one. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: Indy500
Date Posted: 12 August 2013 at 1:45pm
|
Gold Legion is now saying Sept 10th for the Branigan remaster with bonus tracks.
We...will...see. |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 12 August 2013 at 4:09pm
|
Shouldn't Gold Legion worry about the Cheryl Ladd CDs several of us were
charged for/promised many months ago, and still haven't got, before they set dates for new Branigan releases? Gold Legion is still on my mega sh*t- list, have ignored all my e-mails, and I still wish I had never heard of the label. Sorry, Indy. My feelings are totally unchanged. The label is clearly incompetent and unprofessional. I still highly recommend steering clear of them. |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 12 August 2013 at 5:13pm
Ron, are you sure about that? I would swear there's a rearranged verse in the short version. ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 13 August 2013 at 4:39pm
Good ears! There's a different vocal take used for the word "callin'" at 1:17. The short version replaces the short "callin'" from the long version with a long "calllllin'" that's from a later verse. Since you mentioned it, I do remember being able to tell the two versions apart on the radio from that one "callin'" line. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: Indy500
Date Posted: 28 July 2014 at 4:54pm
|
Well it only took 1 &1/2 years but the Gold Legion CD is finally out with the
Gloria 12" as one of the bonus tracks. Runs 5:53 |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 28 July 2014 at 8:22pm
I have this CD and just played it. I know it's Steve Hoffman, but it sounds full and lifeless to me. All I have of the album/45 version is the one on her Greatest Hits CD. and that Sandstone CD. It's sounds quite good, but now i'm very curious about the Omigod! version. I suppose if I have the Billboard 1992 CD, I have a good idea of how it sounds already./ ------------- |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 28 July 2014 at 8:54pm
|
Like Omigod uses the long version, Billboard uses the short version, so they're from different source tapes.
My notes for Like Omigod say: "Loud but very clear and seems to be lower generation source tape than Rock The First and Greatest Hits." I used Like Omigod for the long version in my own library. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 29 July 2014 at 7:08pm
|
My only option is to find the Omigod! CD. ------------- |
Posted By: budaniel
Date Posted: 31 July 2014 at 1:49pm
|
I've added the LP intro onto the extended version if anyone wants to give it a listen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIJp5hlxfiE - GLORIA |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 01 August 2014 at 10:04am
|
Very nice! ------------- |
Posted By: Michaeldila
Date Posted: 25 April 2023 at 3:50pm
|
Does anyone have the edit points to create the short version from the album
version? I've been trying to match the 45 but I can't quite get it perfect....i know some parts are rearranged but it's difficult to figure out where they are spliced.... |
Posted By: mjb50
Date Posted: 26 April 2023 at 6:13am
|
As Ron mentioned, there are at least 25 US CDs with the short version length in the database, so it's not really rare at all.
It also wasn't quite correct to say the vocal take is unique on that first "callin'". That "callin'" is just from a later point in the long version. It's certainly possible to make the edits yourself: Starting with the Like, Omigod! mastering: 1. Make a copy of 1:31.8 to 2:59.5 and insert it at 3:25.1. 2. Remove what is now 1:06.2 to 3:25.1. 3. Remove what is now 3:28.7 to 3:43.3. 4. Remove what is now 3:50.26 to end. 5. Apply a smooth/sinusoidal fadeout from 3:40 to the end (3:50.26). (If doing this in Adobe Audition, use the smooth fadeout preset but with the 2nd anchor dot moved back to the halfway point.) All edits are on the downbeat, except the end point; the fade goes to silence after the 3rd beat in the bar. I used https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Uoo-GC09J8 - a rip of the promo 45 on YouTube as my guide. |
Posted By: Michaeldila
Date Posted: 26 April 2023 at 6:56am
|
Thank you for the instructions. Much appreciated. Yes i have many cds with
the short version but i don't particularly like the way they sound. So i wanted to recreate it with the version from the "platinum collection" cd. Anyway, my issue came at the 1:31 mark because there was no part in the song that quite matched the word "gloria" at that point. I came to the conclusion that the edit/splice occurs between the "g" and the "l" in the word "gloria"... that was the only way i got it to sound like the short version but i didn't think that could be right... but maybe it is? Anyway i appreciate the response! |
Posted By: mjb50
Date Posted: 26 April 2023 at 7:31am
|
Yep, that vocal starting each verse begins a little before the downbeat each time, but the edits are on the beat. It all works out.
Tape splices of this type are normally made at a 45 degree angle, which creates a quick crossfade, smoothing out the sound so it's not so abruptly cutting from one segment to another. When you are doing the edit digitally, if you just join two sections without smoothing their boundary somehow, it might not quite sonically match the real edit. In Adobe Audition you just need to make sure in the preferences you've got "smooth delete/cut boundaries with crossfades of __ ms" and "smooth all edit boundaries by crossfading __ ms" enabled. I do 2 and 5 ms, respectively and am happy with the results. In Audacity, I think the best you can do is select the area of the boundary and do a Repair operation. |
Posted By: Michaeldila
Date Posted: 26 April 2023 at 8:05am
|
Thanks for the tips and information, very helpful! I am using audacity and it
has its good points and bad points, for sure. For example, i can never seem to create a pleasing fade-out... maybe I'll look into adobe. |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 26 April 2023 at 8:45am
|
Extremely minor point:
For analog tape splices, the tape is indeed cut at 45 degrees, but the left and right tape heads are also offset by 45 degrees, so that the splice takes care of both channels at the same time. At least that's how our broadcast decks were set up. I'm sure there were other decks with heads that didn't have the 45-degree offset. For those decks, you'd make your splice at 90 degrees, rather than 45 degrees. The splice blocks all had notches cut at 45 degrees and at 90 degrees. I've been using the default settings in Audacity to do my edits, and they come out just fine. I haven't paid much attention to the crossfade time values, although I'm sure there's a setting that allows you to tinker. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: mjb50
Date Posted: 26 April 2023 at 9:58am
|
Ah, that makes sense; the timing difference, if any, depends on whether the channel offset on the playback head matches the direction of the cut. I imagine, then, the cut can sometimes be in the opposite direction, and played on a deck with an offset, resulting in an even greater offset. And 30 vs 15 ips tape speed may affect this timing when dubbing, as well.
I think this explains why I see so much variation in splices when looking at the waveforms & spectrograms. The vast majority have the left and right transitioning at the same time, or the music is such that I just can't tell. The rest have a visible offset. I've tried replicating the bigger offsets in my reconstructions, but to be honest, I don't really hear the difference. But as for choosing a 90° cut for the non-offset heads, I'm doubt if that was universal. A 45° cut was still ideal for keeping the transition smooth within each channel, the tradeoff being that timing difference, especially at lower tape speeds. But my understanding is that it comes down to the personal preferences of who's doing the edits, as well as what kind of material they're working with; there was no universally correct way. Some blocks have a 60° option as well! |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 26 April 2023 at 11:15am
Aaron taught me a great trick many years ago: The "Effect > Fade Out" in Audacity produces a linear fade, which is perfect for radio but is a little drastic for recorded music. If you apply "Effect > Fade Out" twice or three times in the same location, you can effectively change the shape of the fade so that it starts quick, then tapers gently to zero. I think one of Aaron's tricks is to move the endpoint of the fade into the silence for the third application. You can tweak the beginning/end points and the number of applications to mimic any fade shape. I found this to be much easier to use than the sinusoidal fade options in Cool Edit Pro (now Audition), or manually attempting to mimic a fade shape using linear segments. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: Michaeldila
Date Posted: 26 April 2023 at 12:27pm
|
Thanks Ron, that's very interesting. I'm going to try that! I've never done it
that way before..... |
Posted By: EternalStatic
Date Posted: 26 April 2023 at 2:54pm
|
This is all good info. on the tricks of the trade. Thanks for sharing. I know that in trying to re-create edits digitally, I've run into
situations where no matter how careful and precise I am, the digital result doesn't quite match the feel of the original tape-cut edit. Sometimes the digital copy actually sounds "better" in the sense that it's smoother -- and in those cases, I just accept that the little differences are inherent to the fact that the two methods of editing just work differently. But those cases where the "magic" of the original tape-cut just can't seem to be found in the digital, it can be very frustrating. Good nerding out. Thank you. |
Posted By: mjb50
Date Posted: 26 April 2023 at 3:55pm
| Yeah, I rarely see fades that are perfectly linear or perfectly sinusoidal. They're usually either aggressive at first, then gentle, or vice-versa. There's always a bit of experimentation to try to get a match. Sometimes I have to just say "close enough". Also I try to be clear in my filename & tags when a file is a "fan reconstruction", which I think implies "probably not perfect"! :) |
Posted By: AdvprosD
Date Posted: 04 May 2023 at 4:26pm
I had never even considered this in the scope of Tape splices vs Digital editing. (I also red the follow-ups in the 3rd page.) Man! I am always learning things in editing I never knew before just by reading these comments. ------------- <Dave> Someone please tell I-Heart Radio that St. Louis is not known as The Loo! |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 14 May 2023 at 12:04am
|
Interesting stuff here. I never knew about these 45 & 90 degree angles. I
simply use crossfade in Wavelab, and often times the edit is better than the 45, but I don't consider that a bad thing. And I'm sure there are ways to fade an LP version to match exactly the fade of the single version, but I just look at both WAV forms and do my best to match, but I'm sure it's never perfect. I guess people can subtract one from the other until they've got the exact right curve that was used to fade the 45. |