jacksons torture
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Topic: jacksons torture
Posted By: edtop40
Subject: jacksons torture
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 7:26pm
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my commercial 45 for the jacksons song "turture" issued as
epic 04575 states the run time on the label as 4:30 but actually only runs 4:23 and is an edit of the full length 4:53 cd/lp version....this 45 run time info s/b added to the db.....thx aaron for re-creating the 45 version for me years ago......THANKS!!... ------------- edtop40 |
Replies:
Posted By: waldo
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 8:52pm
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the Torture 45 exists on several compilation CD's.
what LP version did you use? TWO different 4:53 album versions exist. both were pressed on cassette/vinyl and even CD. one has Jackie Jackson ad-libbing towards the end. one does not. the 45 has the ad-libs. |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 10:21pm
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the db doesn't state that any of the domestic cd's have the
45 version.....where did you find the 45 version on cd?......on what import?...the board would love to know.... ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 11:00pm
| Yes, I'd also be interested to know which LP version of "Torture" is on each database CD? Based on waldo's description, it sounds like my pressing of the Jacksons' Victory CD (Epic 38946) contains the LP version with Jackie Jackson's ad-libbed vocals toward the end. |
Posted By: waldo
Date Posted: 27 November 2011 at 12:17am
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this CD has the Torture single..
http://www.discogs.com/Various-Good-Times-80s-Dance-Classics/release/753962 - Various – Good Times - 80s Dance Classics |
Posted By: waldo
Date Posted: 27 November 2011 at 12:19am
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i was told this one too ??
http://www.discogs.com/Various-Back-To-The-80s-Volume-3/release/764364 - Various – Back To The 80's - Volume 3 Volume 1 in this series has the State Of Shock single http://www.discogs.com/Various-Back-To-The-80s/release/525553?ev=rr - Various – Back To The 80's |
Posted By: waldo
Date Posted: 27 November 2011 at 12:22am
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i have this one..
http://www.discogs.com/Jacksons-The-Very-Best-Of-The-Jackson%20s/release/1244445 - Jacksons, The – The Very Best Of The Jacksons be careful there are TWO different versions of this compilation.. one with single edits and one with album versions.. http://www.discogs.com/Jacksons-The-Very-Best-Of-The-Jacksons/release/2407963 - Album versions |
Posted By: waldo
Date Posted: 27 November 2011 at 12:51am
i've never come across a USA cd pressing without Jackie Jackson's ad-libs at the end. i have two different European CD's with and without the ad-libs and a Japanese without too. |
Todd Ireland wrote:Posted By: Pat Downey
Date Posted: 27 November 2011 at 8:01pm
| All cd's in the database are identical with Jackie Jackson at the end. I think Waldo is confusing the issue by citing import cd's that may have a different version. I am not aware of two different cd domestic pressings of "Victory" - if anyone has a domestic matrix number of "Victory" that includes the 45 version of "Torture" please pass that information along so I can track down a copy. |
Posted By: waldo
Date Posted: 28 November 2011 at 3:29am
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right! i don't think there are two different USA pressings of the Victory CD. only UK and Japan.
45 version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VX6BJeVnfI LP version - without ad libs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-dWI-Gn1u4 LP version - with ad libs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQn3TVdt-mg |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 28 November 2011 at 5:35pm
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I can say with certainty that two US CD pressings exist, because the copy I
used as my source did NOT have the ad libs at the end. I had to splice on the last part from vinyl and didn't even know there was a CD copy with the ad libs. I'll try to ask my friend who owns the CD (an original, first pressing) if he can supply the matrix number. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: waldo
Date Posted: 28 November 2011 at 8:47pm
interesting, i'll pull my US copy out and double check.. i've recently got this US Triple Pack too.. haven't opened it yet. http://www.amazon.com/Triple-Feature-Jacksons/dp/B0047MX5S6/ ref=sr_1_5?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1322538602&sr=1-5 |
Posted By: PaulEschen
Date Posted: 18 April 2012 at 3:24pm
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Just as a side note, the Australian CD version of Victory (Epic
CDEPC86303) has the version WITHOUT Jackie ad-libbing. This is true of the track on the US I-Tunes version of the Jacksons album as well. Also, does the version of "Torture" on The Very Best Of The Jacksons with the single edits match the US 45 version? |
Posted By: waldo
Date Posted: 01 November 2012 at 10:00am
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Torture 12" FIRST time on CD..
have ordered it.. hope it's not a needle drop. timing on the label was always 6:15. http://www.discogs.com/Various-Dance-Classics-Pop-Edition- Vol-8/release/3981230 |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 01 November 2012 at 11:58am
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I'm glad this came back up, because the database currently does not note that there are two different LP versions--one with and one without the ad-libs at the end. I forgot about obtaining the matrix number of the "Victory" CD without the ad-libs, but it does exist. My friend who owns it bought it when it was first released back in the mid-80s.
Does anyone own the vinyl LP that does not have the ad-libs? Also, where do the ad-libs start on this version? On the 45, they start 30 seconds before the tail end of the fade. On the 12" single, they start 59 seconds before the end of the fade. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: budaniel
Date Posted: 01 November 2012 at 1:25pm
| The Dance Classics series by Rodeo Media is mastered from vinyl (and I assume from CD in cases where songs are available on CD). But they sound quality is absolutely fantastic. No dirty records used on the series. |
Posted By: 80smusicfreak
Date Posted: 01 November 2012 at 3:27pm
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aaronk is correct; the first pressings of the
Victory CD made for the U.S. market on Epic EK 38946 DO NOT contain Jackie Jackson's ad-libs at the end of "Torture". In fact, I have one right here in front of me as I type this (found it while out on my record-store travels about six months ago)... What's key to remember here is where the CD format was at when this album first came out - i.e., its infancy. The vinyl LP & cassette of Victory were released simultaneously here in the U.S. in early July of '84 (bought the cassette version myself at that time); those first presings DID NOT contain the ad-libs on "Torture". Of course, being the superstar act that they were, it was a no-brainer that Epic/CBS wanted to release the album on the fledgling CD as well. However, because the digital format was still so young (barely a year on the U.S. market, at that point), and w/ no CD pressing plants here in the U.S. (yet), like w/ all other new titles being released on CD in '84, the CD version of Victory didn't hit store shelves until about 4-6 weeks AFTER the LP & cassette, probably sometime in August. Epic/CBS hadn't yet put the ad-lib version of "Torture" on the album, so those first pressings of the CD don't have the ad-libs, either. I don't know exactly when Epic/CBS made the changeover to the ad-lib version, but I'm guessing it was in either 1985 or '86, and of course, it was made to all three formats... Prior to the summer of '85 (i.e., the first full two years that CDs were available on the U.S. market) - which is when the first U.S. CD pressing plant opened - we Americans relied primarily on Japan & West Germany for manufacturing our CDs. And in the case of CBS, they used only Japan. Therefore, if you want the U.S. CD version of Victory WITHOUT the ad-libs, you'll need to find one of those first Japan-for-U.S. pressings. Now, do the first U.S.-for-U.S. pressings (which would've been manufactured by DADC) made in 1985 or '86 contain the version of "Torture" w/o the ad-libs??? I don't know, but I seriously doubt it. I realize waldo is in the U.K., so I don't expect him to know all of this, but this would explain why he hasn't seen a U.S. pressing of Victory w/o the ad-libs, as this is where things get a bit technical (since the first U.S. CDs actually say "MANUFACTURED IN JAPAN" on them). This logic also applies when attempting to track down first pressings of such CDs as Whitney Houston's 1985 s/t debut and Heart's s/t album on Capitol from '85, among others (both of which also contain different versions of some of their hits)... Anyway, my copy happens to be one of those first Japan- for-U.S. pressings, which is also marked by having a smooth-edged jewel case (vs. ribbed). "Torture" runs (4:52) on my copy. So yes, Pat will indeed need to update the database for this one... Oh, and for aaronk, Pat, waldo, or anyone else who wants one of these first CD pressings of Victory made for the U.S. market w/o the ad-libs on "Torture", there are actually no less than THREE copies currently listed on eBay: 1) from seller "echobunny2000" (item #300796784707) ($14.00 + shipping) 2) from seller "mjawrp" (item #290782730253) ($17.99, inc. shipping) 3) from seller "jankuffo" (item #150895316808) (roughly $21.00 + shipping) I've bought from "echobunny2000" in the past, w/ no problems. In fact, the various pictures in his listing do a great job of explaining what I mean about the key details to look for when attempting to identify one of these early pressings. Oh, and even though "jankuffo" is located in the Netherlands, his copy is indeed a Japan- for-U.S. pressing, as he describes (can tell from his pics). And for those who also insist on a matrix no. (or two), note that "echobunny2000" states that his is "35 8P-50 31A5"; mine is "35 8P-50 31A1"... Good luck, and this concludes today's lesson, lol... :-) |
Posted By: waldo
Date Posted: 01 November 2012 at 4:44pm
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thanks aaronk and 80smusicfreak for confirming that US
copies w and w/o the ad-libs exist. thanks budaniel for letting me know about Rodeo Media |
Posted By: budaniel
Date Posted: 15 November 2012 at 8:16pm
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Hey waldo,
don't know if you got your copy of Dance Classics yet, but I received mine, and I noticed that torture is faded about 10 seconds earlier than it is on my 12" vinyl single. There are about three bars of music missing from the fade. |
Posted By: Fetta
Date Posted: 25 May 2013 at 12:03pm
Does anyone know how to tell the difference between these two versions of "The Very Best Of The Jacksons"? For some reason, I thought that the Australian version was the one with the 45 mixes on it (specifically State of Shock and Torture) and of course, $30 later (and a long ship time from Australia), I get my copy and it has all Album versions. Would love some insight on how to tell the difference between the one with Album versions and the one with 45 versions. Thanks all! -Jeff |
Posted By: waldo
Date Posted: 16 April 2014 at 3:29pm
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nope. first UK edition has 45 versions. it only has a few
unique ones anyway. Torture, Show You The Way To Go. the true State Of Shock single timing out at 4:05 appears on these CD comps. Back To The 80's [Dutch 4-CD Compilation Columbia - 486718 2] (1996) Back To The US Of A [European 4-CD Compilation Sony Music Media - 494734 2] (1999) Back To The 80's - Volume 2 [Dutch 2-CD Compilation Reissue Sony Music Media - 4867181] (2004) De 100 Grootste Car Classics ... Allertijden [Dutch 5-CD Compilation] (2006) |
Posted By: JL328
Date Posted: 12 February 2017 at 5:32am
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I'm having a little trouble with "Torture."
It's always been my understanding that the 45 version is an edit of the LP version with the ad libs. It's got a primary edit that runs from about 3:41.7 to 3:56.4. And then the 45 and LP version match up until we get into the Jackie Jackson ad libs. At about 4:05-4:06 on the 45 (4:20-4:21 on the LP), he sings "When you call my name" in a bit of a falsetto, and then sings "Hey" and draws out the sound. That's where I have a problem. On the 45, it's a bit of a slow "Hey... ay... ay... ay" type of thing. On the LP, it's a bit of a faster "Heyeyeyey." I'm sorry, but I really don't know how to describe it in writing. The 45 also has some pretty prominent "karate" sound effects (I guess somebody being tortured) over this part. To me, the vocal just doesn't match. Anybody else notice this or am I crazy? So, then I thought perhaps this was an edit, but I can't find the slower "hey" ad lib anywhere on the LP version, although Jackie does start to go into one in the fade out. I appreciate any thoughts. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 12 February 2017 at 7:05am
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I recently bought a copy of Victory for the same reason, but it cannot be
edited to create the 45 version. The LP version fades too soon, so some of the ad libs heard on the 45 are not found on the LP. I ended up ordering the UK Very Best Of, which has the correct 45 version. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |