New RR #101-#150 book out next month!
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Topic: New RR #101-#150 book out next month!
Posted By: jimct
Subject: New RR #101-#150 book out next month!
Date Posted: 04 November 2012 at 4:07am
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I just saw Paul Haney mention inside the "Feliz Navidad" thread about this
upcoming new RR book. I'm normally "all over" new RR releases, but it's the first I'm hearing about this one! Now I know we all love the Top 40 hits, but in my heart I've always had a special spot for the "coulda-woulda-shoulda" 45s that this new RR release will include. I decided to give this topic its own thread here because, 1) it will be out soon (next month), and 2) it mentions that this publication will only be produced in very limited quantities, so don't delay if you're interested. I'm pre-ordering mine Wednesday. More outstanding work by Mr. Whitburn/ Mr. Haney/RR team! |
Replies:
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 14 November 2012 at 5:05am
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We just sent the book to the printer yesterday afternoon, so it should be in stock by mid-December.
This book is chock-full of really obscure stuff. Many songs/artists/labels that are totally new to me! |
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 08 December 2012 at 4:13am
| The books just arrived at our offices yesterday (12/7) and we've already started shipping out the back-orders! If you've already ordered the book, you'll be getting it soon. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 17 December 2012 at 1:14pm
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Thanks for the info on this. I just ordered Record World Top 100 and 101-150 books today (actually, a total of 8 Record Research books!)
BTW, years ago I bought the Radio & Records (R&R) "book" of their charts, so with this Record World purchase, I'll now have all 4 major chart books: Record World, R&R, Cashbox and, of course, all the Billboard books. Incidentally, the guy at Record Research told me they're doing an update to the Cashbox book that Pat previously put out. It may have Bubbling Under added, as well as other info and some corrections. BTW, in that Cashbook book, it mistakenly has ABBA's "When All Is Said and Done" peaking at #1. Pat, can you (or anyone) tell me the correct position of that record in Cashbox? Thanks. (Pat's Cashbox book is really great, for those of you who don't have it or know about it). |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 17 December 2012 at 2:16pm
It peaked at #31, Gordon, in the 3/13/82 issue. For anyone who doesn't know, every Cash Box chart from 1950 on is available on the Cash Box website: http://cashboxmagazine.com/archives/index.html - http://cashboxmagazine.com/archives/index.html |
EdisonLite wrote:Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 17 December 2012 at 7:26pm
| Thanks Brian. |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 18 December 2012 at 1:29am
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Wow, I am really impressed with this new book! As Paul alluded to earlier,
there are many obscure, "local" hits, which were so much more prevalent pre-1972, that have never appeared in any RR publication before. It is just SO wonderful for me to finally have these songs be given the "full Whitburn treatment", as to accurate title, flip side, label and catalog # details. I'm sure that Paul Haney must've personally put much time and effort into this new RR book. Thank you, sir, as I'm personally enjoying the "fruits of your labor" very much! |
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 18 December 2012 at 4:12am
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Thanks for all of the kind words about the books.
The work on the Cash Box book is just getting started. Let me stress that this is not simply an "update" as we are doing the research on the weekly charts from scratch. We've already uncovered several errors in the prevously published books. Stay tuned! |
Posted By: Bondy
Date Posted: 18 December 2012 at 10:37am
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Paul,
I just received the Record World bubbling under book and have to tell you that I'm dissapointed. This book should of had a lot more titles that bubbled under. Apparently,the book only lists records that did not appear in any of Whitburn's Billboard books. I think that for #50.00 the book should contain ALL the records that Bubbled Under in Record World including those that went on to make the top 100. This book has only 176 pages while the top 100 book has 418 pages. Whitburn charges the same price for both books. Somehow, this doesn't seem fair. The Bubbling Under book should of been complete with all the records that bubbled under or at least cost half the price. What do you think? |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 18 December 2012 at 11:43am
| Does the book not contain every single that peaked between 101 and 150 in Record World? It should, regardless if it peaked in Billboard's Hot 100 or Billboard's Bubbling Under. I certainly hope I misread or misunderstood the above statement. That's what I thought I was paying for when I ordered the book yesterday. In fact, if a song peaked at, say, #76 in Billboard and #123 in Record World, I'd certainly want to know about that - because it would be a better indication to me (and a fuller picture) of how the song actually did nationally. So, I sure hope none of the songs that peaked between #101 and #150 were left off the Record World Hit Records Book of songs that peaked between #101 and #150. |
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 18 December 2012 at 1:45pm
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Yes, the book ONLY contains those songs that didn't chart on Billboard (and it WAS advertised as such). We simply didn't have the time nor the resources to print a book covering the entire chart (see the 4th paragraph in Joel's author's note).
Believe me, I'd love to see the full research some day (and I believe it'll eventually get done). But for now, we felt it important to get these new charted titles accounted for first. |
Posted By: Bondy
Date Posted: 18 December 2012 at 1:47pm
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EdisonLite,
No! The book only contains records that did not chart in any of the Billboard books. |
Posted By: Bondy
Date Posted: 18 December 2012 at 1:57pm
| But Paul--- this book shouldn't cost #50.00 for half of the songs. In my opinion it's a little steep. |
Posted By: djjohn
Date Posted: 18 December 2012 at 2:46pm
| Right Bondy, also it seems like a money grab to me. All of this could have fit in one book. The bubbling Under book is only 176 pages, The Hit records is 416. It could have easily fit into one book. I would have paid an extra $20.00 to have it all in one place instead of over $100.00 for the 2 books. Now I have to look in both books to reference an artist. "Money Grab" |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 18 December 2012 at 4:12pm
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Gordon, when I first saw the "official blurb" on this new book (BSN
maybe?), it was instantly apparent to me exactly what its contents were. My bad for not including that link in my initial post. I didn't mean to give you a bum steer, old buddy, but as Paul said, it ain't perfect, and there was "full disclosure." Nonetheless, I'm sure Paul will "make it right", if you expected different contents. Bondy and djjohn, you are both very new to Pat's board. Therefore, nothing personal, but your opinions don't carry much credibility with me yet. All I can say is that I am *positive* that neither of you have ever published a "research" book yourselves. Research takes *forever!!!*. One of my best friends just published a 400-page book on 60's garage music. It took him 21 *years!* And he, too, got some of these same "money grab" comments, for his own $99.95 price. I saw what this guy went through with fact-checking, etc. and I know those "money grab" "words were both hurtful to him, are SO not true! Choose to pass on these books if you like, but my lawyer just told me this week he's upped his fee to $300 an *hour!*. Perspective, anyone? Guys, RR didn't just go through old Record Worlds, and "cherry pick" the previously-RR-unpublished songs. You think the "flip sides" of all these songs were also listed in the mag? No. RR came up with them. You think the fact that "The Kings Ransom" was from Allentown, PA was found in RW? No. RR dug it up. And that the 45 showed no "apostrophe" for the word "Kings?" No. Again, RR. *That's* what takes all the time to research. I also know first hand that RW's listed label and catalog # info was, by far, the least accurate of all the trade mags. For that, RR had to ignore whatever it saw and re-research it all, I'm sure. Bondy and djjohn, I do not work for Record Research. And I assure you, I have also had the occasional "issue" with RR over the years. John says that he'd now have to use two books at times. I admit, it's not perfect. But at least there IS a book now, to use in tandem. Like anything, I guess, folks can choose to see things as "cup half full", or "cup half empty." I just felt that your RR criticisms were unfair, in this case. Thanks for reading, and I look forward to future posts from you both. |
Posted By: Bondy
Date Posted: 18 December 2012 at 6:46pm
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jimct,
Yes I am new on this board, but do own a lot of Whitburn's Billboard books and very satisfied with all of them. If I would of read the add correctly I would not of bought this book because to me it's not complete. I could of waited and purchased the complete bubbling under book and would have gladly paid more for the completed book, so now people would have to buy 2 books instead of one. Call it what you want, but I think that DJJOHN is right. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 19 December 2012 at 12:52pm
Well, I'm not sure how Paul can "make it right". I was expecting all the chart #'s. And yes, I did read the blurb but I thought that was just one of the advertised points, like ... "think of all the non-Billboard charting songs you'll find in THIS book because this is RW's charts!" I didn't think it meant it was the ONLY songs in the book. Still, being a "glass half full" person, I'm glad the books came out and I'd still rather have them than not. But boy, would I have liked to see all the RW peaks!!! It'll probably be a week before I receive these Record World books, so let me get a heads up on what to expect (what's in the book and what's missing). Are you saying: ... that the 101-150 book contains no songs that peaked in Billboard's Bubbling Under charts and HOT 100? What if they peaked in the AC, R&B or country books? ... the top 100 book contains no songs that peaked in Billboard's Hot 100 or Bubbling Under? ... or country or AC or country or rock charts? Can there be many top 5 hits in the Record World top 100 book at all? I can't even imagine there'd be any top 10 RW hits that didn't make at least #100 or #125 in Billboard... (other than an occasional obvious payola record.... Didn't we see Wayne Newton or someone had a top 5 pop hit in the 1982 (!) in Cashbox or Radio & Records?) UPDATE: Unless it was a typo like ABBA'S "When All Is Said and Done", in Cashbox Wayne reached #1 in 1992 (!) with a single on Curb Records. Hmmmm :) I don't remember that one. |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 19 December 2012 at 1:43pm
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Gordon, by "making it right", I was simply referring to to fact that Paul/RR
would give you a refund, if you'd bought something, but were expecting different contents. Regarding the BB Country/AC/Rock chart entries also possibly being excluded here, I could certainly research/check on that for you if needed, but my guess is that Paul would very quickly be able to answer that specific question for you. |
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 19 December 2012 at 2:18pm
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Gordon, here's what's in the books.
The original Hit Records 1954-82 book contains EVERYTHING that charted on the Music Vendor/Record World Top 100 charts, even if it also hit Billboard (the ones that never charted in Billboard are marked with a special symbol, and there are lots of those too). The only real caveat to that statement is if the same song was done by multiple artists, then we only researched the first title listed each week. This was quite common during the 1950s, with all the different cover versions. Unlike Billboard, MV/RW lumped all versions together, with the most popular version listed first. The Hit Records #101-150 book ONLY contains those titles that did not get a peak position on either the Billboard Hot 100 or Bubbling Under charts. There are LOTS of titles that hit Billboard's R&B, Country, AC, etc and those ARE included in the book. I hope that clears things up for you. If you have any other questions/concerns, please feel free to PM me or give me a call at Record Research. We want satisfied customers! |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 20 December 2012 at 12:01pm
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Well, the Hit Records book is then exactly like what I expected. The 101-150 book is a disappointment, but I'd rather have it than not, and I do understand the time constraints involved (although there was some extra time taken up just to make sure the songs they were including WEREN'T in the two Billboard books.)
Speaking of calling Record Research, I've called twice this past week - spoke to a Brent and a woman whose name I don't remember. But they told me there are only 3 people who work in the office. Paul, I take it you are the 3rd! They mentioned the first name of the 3rd person, but I don't recall what they said. Guess I just missed you! |
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 20 December 2012 at 12:30pm
Ha! Yes, there's just Brent, Jeanne and myself. Just ask for me next time and I'll be glad to talk to you (we all take turns answering the phones, so you may just get "lucky" and get me right away)! |
Posted By: djjohn
Date Posted: 22 December 2012 at 8:57am
| I know how much research and time it takes to put a book together. I have researched radio station charts for the past 20 years and here locally in Michigan have put together my own research guides to CKLW, WXYZ, WJBK & WKNR among other stations, so I do know a little of how much time and energy it takes to tackle such a project. |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 28 December 2012 at 5:59pm
one more important piece of info that may have been overlooked here. If a song made the Cashbox charts and will be in a future RR book then it would also not be in this Bubbling Under volume for RW. Can you confirm this Paul? ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 29 December 2012 at 3:27am
Yes Santi, that statement is correct. Our original idea was to just do one book that would contain anything that hit in either Music Vendor/Record World and/or Cash Box, but didn't make Billboard. After further discussion, we decided that there needed to be a book covering the complete Top 100 of MV/RW, thus the original "Hit Records" book was born. During the research for that original book, Joel was excited to see all of the "new" titles on the #101-150 charts. He thought that others would be just as interested in those titles, thus the #101-150 book. When Joel looked for the exclusive titles, he already had the Cash Box Top 100-exclusive titles accounted for in our internal database (due to the original book idea mentioned above). Thus, those titles that only made the Cash Box Top 100 chart are NOT listed in the #101-150 RW book. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 29 December 2012 at 12:51pm
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Wow, that's a real shame. That's even more disappointing than just the Billboard charted hits not being in this RW Bubbling Under book.
Yesterday, when I tried explaining to a friend why not all the RW 101-150 peakers were in the RW book, my reasoning backfired. I explained to him that it had to do with the time involved in researching - not so much the peak position of a song because that could easily be obtained when the researcher went through the bubbling under charts (and he clearly had to go through each one for the RW book). I explained that it probably had to do with the time involved in determining other very time-absorbing factual info such as group members, record label and #, etc. THEN I realized this WAS already determined - because all that bio & label info would be listed in the Billboard books already published. NO NEW research was needed, just the peak #. So I really wish they'd included those songs, and now I know we'll never get the peak positions of RW Bubbling Under songs if they made the Billboard charts OR the Cashbox charts! This is really sad because I really wanted those numbers. Paul, can you guys at least do some kind of update for the missing pieces, even if we have to buy a pdf file with the peak position of the missing songs? That's more money we'd have to spend just for what we (or at least, I) thought I was already purchasing, but I do want that info very much. And what about the R&R charts? Did the researcher also cross reference the Radio & Records charts to make sure each song didn't peak in those charts as well? Also - what will be missing from the Cashbox books (particularly, a Bubbling Under book)? And don't get me wrong, I appreciate the time and work that went into the RW book. But it seems to me, the time the researcher spent to cross reference and check that a song didn't make the Billboard Hot 100, the Billboard Bubbling Under, the Cashbox charts and (perhaps) the Radio & Record charts, instead he simply could have noted the song's peak in RW - and gotten the artist and label info from the Billboard books. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 30 December 2012 at 1:37pm
| Is there any talks of RR doing a Radio & Records pop book? |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 04 January 2013 at 6:40pm
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In the '90s, I bought from Radio & Records their "chart book" - it wasn't a published book like what we're used to, but rather xeroxed pages in a 3-hole type of folder. It went from '74 to '96 (was '74 the year they started, and if so, what's the first issue date?), and contained the following:
The year-end charts The peak positions of all songs that reached the top 15 in any given year My question is: how far below #15 did the pop and AC charts go? Does anyone know? |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 04 January 2013 at 7:31pm
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The best resource for R&R info is here:
http://wweb.uta.edu/faculty/gghunt/charts/chart.html From that site: 1973 and 1974 R+R's chart was only a TOP 20 chart, though that was inconsistent - some weeks the chart would be top 22, top 23, top 21 --- variable. Late in the year it moved to top 30 and finally a TOP 40 chart for the first time on 11/29/74. Therefore if the "weeks in the chart" column has a star next to it, that means weeks on chart could mean weeks on the top 20, top 24, top 30, etc. i.e. an inconsistently sized NON-top 40 chart. The top 40 chart of 11/29/74 lasted until 10/8/76. The chart on 10/15/76 was a top 30 chart, and remained that way until 1983, therefore "weeks on chart" for song hitting in this time period means weeks on the top 30. From June 1983 until May 1995, the chart was again 40 songs, and May 1995-present the chart was 50 songs. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 06 January 2013 at 12:06pm
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Wow, I didn't realize the # of positions changed that much. Thanks, Aaron - I'll check out that link. Is there any website or database that lists all R&R pop peak positions (even beyond the top 15 they published in the looseleaf notebooks they sold to those who asked)?
[UPDATE: I just checked that link, which answers my question. It lists all pop peaks. COOL!!!' Also, did Cashbox and Record World have AC/Easy Listening charts from the '70s until their respective demises (in '93 and '92)? |