Michael Jackson - the 45 versions on CD
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Topic: Michael Jackson - the 45 versions on CD
Posted By: Brian W.
Subject: Michael Jackson - the 45 versions on CD
Date Posted: 05 December 2004 at 6:45am
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Here is part one of a list of Michael Jackson's Epic hits
and where to find them on CD in their 45 versions. All have now been issued on CD, most of them on commercial CDs. (I've updated the formatting on this post to highlight in red the 45 versions that have never been issued on a full-length CD.) Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough � The 45 appears to have been the LP version faded about 10 seconds early. Label says 5:45, actual running time is 5:53 (not 5:56 � I loaded the vinyl 45 and the CD on my PC and got them in sync, and it's just barely 5:53). This early-fade version of "Don't Stop" was released on an Austrian CD3 in the late 1980s, as part of CBS's "Mixed Master" series of extended dance mix CD singles. (Because, believe it or not, the fade version was issued in 1979 as the "extended" 12-inch mix in the U.S.! Go figure.) The version on this CD3 is also EQ'd like the 45 � the spoken intro is a bit louder, and the dynamic range is slightly compressed. Running time is 5:52, blacking out just one second earlier than the 45. Catalog number is EPC 651657 3, containing "Don't Stop" and the original extended dance remix of "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'." It's not all THAT rare � I wouldn't pay more than $20-$25 for it. In 2005 the US version of the CD "Essential Michael Jackson" contained a very convincing early fade of the album version, faded to match the single length. Rock With You � The 45 cut in half the instrumental break in the middle of the song. It was issued on "The Essential Michael Jackson" in 2005. Prior to that, it was only available issued on a two-track Japanese CD3, part of a series of four MJ "hits" singles that came out in Japan at the time of the "Bad" tour. The CD3 is called "Rock With You/Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough," and it's Epic/Sony 10-8P-3044, UPC code 4988010603557. Actual running time is 3:22. "Don't Stop" is the LP version here. Off the Wall � Boy, was I surprised to find there have been three different mixes of this song -- the original LP, the 45 remix/edit, and a full-length remix. The 45 version can be found only on a Japanese CD3 from the series I just mentioned, called "Off the Wall/She's Out of My Life," Epic/Sony 10-8P- 3045, UPC code 4988010603656. Actual running time is 3:48. She's Out of My Life � As far as I can tell, the 45 was the LP version. The Girl is Mine and P.Y.T. (Pretty Young Thing) both used the LP versions for the 45 releases. Billie Jean The 45 was a slightly different mix than the original album version. The most obvious difference is the background "oh, no" after the line "eyes were like mine." On the single, that "oh, no" is very prominent. On the original album version, it's extremely faint, almost inaudible. First pressings of the vinyl album and CD (CDs pressed in Japan) feature the original album mix, but it was quickly swapped out for the single version when other countries began pressing CDs. To my knowledge, the original mix has only been issued on one other CD: the Japanese Michael Jackson "Tour Souvenir CD Single" box (1992, Sony ESCA5703-7). Beat It, as EdTop40 recently pointed out, was the LP version faded about five seconds early. It was issued in its exactly 45 version on the British Michael Jackson "Tour Souvenir Pack" (Epic 01 658281 14). Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' � The 45 was a short version of the extended dance remix of the song, condensing the intro, cutting the second verse ("You love to pretend that you're good"), and shortening the "mama say mama sa" ending. It was issued on all of the various "King of Pop" compilations worldwide (a title that was not released in the U.S.). Thriller and Human Nature The 45 versions of both have only been issued on CD once... on the same CD, again as part of the that Japanese CD3 series. Several edit versions of Thriller" have found their way to CD -� the US radio edit, the UK single edit -- but the US 45 version was unique. It cut the Vincent Price rap completely, and had a brief instrumental section in its place that is not found on any other version, including the 12" Instrumental (which has also been issued on CD). The 45 inaccurately lists the running time as 3:56. Running time of the song on this CD is 4:07, and I did A/B it with the 45. I've recently discovered the actual names of some of the edit versions. The 4:37 edit, which contains only the first half of the Vincent Price rap followed by an instrumental section unique to this version, has the official title of "Special Edit." This was the commercial 45 version in the UK, Australia, and several other countries. The US single edit without rap, the commercial 45 version, is called "Remixed Short Version." The 5:10 edit, which is the LP version minus the long "sound effects" intro, was a promo edit, and is referred to simply as "Thriller (with rap)" on the label. In early 2006, Sony UK began issuing the Michael Jackson Video Singles Collection, a series of 20 Dual Disc CD singles, to be purchased separately, featuring the DVD video on one side and two tracks of audio on the other. The initial offering, available only inside the otherwise empty box to hold the entire set (at $19.99 or less), was a CD single of Thriller, with the audio side containing both the LP and the US 45 version of the song... it's first issue on CD since the old Japanese CD3. According to the mastering engineer, who posts on the Steve Hoffman board from time to time, the entire set was mastered from the original single masters. So "Way You Make Me Feel" will presumably be the true 45 version as well. Sadly, there were no videos for "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'" or "Human Nature," so those unique 45 mixes are not a part of the set... and neither are the non-LP B-sides, damn it. Human Nature seems identical to the LP version until the brief instrumental break, where it's a completely different "instrument" playing there (though both are probably synthesizers). Then several bars are cut after the final verse, jumping from the first line of the last chorus straight to "cha da cha cha." (So it's, "I'm dreaming of the street, If they say why, why, cha da cha cha cha cha cha cha.") The vinyl 45 incorrectly lists the running time as 4:05, the LP length. I did A/B the 45 with the CD3, which runs 3:46. The "Thriller/Human Nature" CD3 is Epic/Sony 10-8P-3047, UPC code 4988010603854. This is the rarest in the series... I paid $100 for mine on Ebay. (Which is more than what it usually goes for!) The fourth and final disc in the series was Billie Jean/Beat It, which to my knowledge contained the LP versions of both. I Just Can't Stop Loving You originally contained a spoken intro by Michael on both the album and the single, but radio stations were supplied with a mix without the spoken intro. At some point in 1988, the "intro" version was replaced with the radio version on the "Bad" album in America. However, it appears that many foreign countries, including the UK, never switched the track, though I'm not 100% sure on that. The US commercial CD3, which was issued several months after the 45, contained the radio edit. Bad � The single was a different mix from the LP version, the most obvious difference being the single's lack of the LP's horn blasts on the first two choruses ("You know I'm bad -- bad, bad [horn]), really, really bad"). Those horns don't come in until the final chorus on the single version. Both the Japanese CD maxi single (which is still in print) and the US promo CD single list it as "Single Mix," and it does say it was remixed by Bruce Swedien. "Bad" was not issued as a commercial CD3 single in the U.S. -- the only single from "Bad" that was not. The US promo CD matched the Japanese maxi-CD single. A maxi-CD was also released in the UK, but it contained only the dance mixes, not the single version. The Way You Make Me Feel � No doubt about this one: the 45 is edited by about 30 seconds, sped up slightly, and the vocal is mixed further forward with the backing vocals more subdued. It appeared commercially on a US CD3 in 1988, b/w the 45 Instrumental (which, to my knowledge, is the only place the Instrumental has ever appeared). It was Epic 34K- 07645. It was also issued on a Japanese CD3, coupled with the Extended Dance Mix, and the US promo CD single, which contained all mixes of the song except the Instrumental. (The promo is one of the few MJ CDs I'm missing from my collection.) In 2005, "The Essential Michael Jackson" made an attempt at recreating the single version, but it was edited down from the "HiStory" mix of the song, and did not quite match the 45. Man in the Mirror � The 45 was an edit...but was it remixed? It appears so. It says "remixed" on the sleeve, and while most people would never be able to tell the difference, to me it sounds a hair more... how would I put it? Punchy? Maybe it's just EQ'd differently, I don't know. Regardless, it's definitely shorter than the LP version. The 45 version has appeared on his "Number Ones" compilation, but was also issued as a commercial CD3 in the US in 1988, b/w the 45 Instrumental, as well as the same configuration in the UK, Germany, Japan, and many other countries. Dirty Diana � Definite remix: much punchier drums, stronger guitar, and fades out a good 10 seconds earlier than the original LP version. It has since replaced the original version on the remastered "Special Edition" of the "Bad" album, and has appeared on "Number Ones." For the 45 Instrumental, you'll have to track down any of the OOP CD singles � they were issued in America (CD3), the UK, Japan, and Germany, and probably other countries as well. Another Part of Me � The 45 version, which, like several of the singles from "Bad," was remixed very similarly to the Extended Dance Remix, initially appeared commercially only on the Japanese CD3. All other commercial CD singles, including the US CD3, had only the extended versions. The 45 version was finally issued on a full-length CD on "Essential Michael Jackson" in 2005. It also appeared on the US promo CD single, which contained all versions except the 45 Instrumental (which was on the four-track CD3 from Holland, EPC 652844 3, UPC code 5099765284430). Actual running time of the 45 version is 3:45, though the label says 3:47. Smooth Criminal � Once again, an LP-length remix, similar to the Dance Remix. Once again, most commercial CD singles, including the US, contained only the extended mixes. The 45 version was available on the US promo CD single, along with all other versions except the 45 Instrumental, and also on the Japanese CD3, which contained the 45 version and 45 Instrumental. The Japanese CD3 was Epic/Sony 10-8P-3050, UPC code 4988010604158. (Beware... there is a still-in- print Japanese maxi-CD for "Smooth Criminal" that DOES NOT contain the 45 version.) The 45 version has since appeared on both the British and Japanese "Tour Souvenir Pack," a set of four picture-CD singles issued during the "Dangerous" tour, each containing three songs (four on the Japanese version). Actual running time is 4:10. Leave Me Alone � Only one version, as far as I know... on the "Bad" CD album. Released as a commercial single only outside the US, though of course the video received heavy airplay here. Liberian Girl � Released as a single only outside the US. OOP, but easy to obtain. The single version was an edit, but the liner notes do say it was remixed by Bruce Swedien. To be continued... |
Replies:
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 05 December 2004 at 6:54am
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I forgot about "Say Say Say"! Of course we all know that's on McCartney's "Pipes of Peace" and "All the Best" CDs. (Strangely, not on "Wingspan.")
As far as I know, the 45 and LP are the same. But a remix and instrumental were released on a 12-inch single at the time, and have sadly never been reissued. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 06 February 2005 at 11:33pm
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Brian W.--Good work! A very informational and helpful post. Although I'm probably not going to pay some of the outrageous prices for the Japanese singles, it's nice to know where to find them if I did decide to splurge.
I do have two minor corrections to make. The 45 versions of "Another Part Of Me" and "Smooth Criminal" are not edits of the extended dance mixes. They are very, very close, but they are not exact. I have the extended dance mixes of both songs, and I tried to edit them according to the 45 versions, but there's a couple spots where the mixes don't match. In "Another Part Of Me," the vocals at the end of the 45 version are mixed with a different part of the music track (right before and during the fade out). You'll notice that the horns and Michael's singing are in different spots between the extended and 45 versions. Also, in "Smooth Criminal," the intro to the extended remix has an echo on Michael's "cha," where the 45 version does not. So, there are some slight differences in the mix. But overall, a very informative and helpful post. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 07 February 2005 at 12:11am
| You're right, Aaron. I should have said they are remixed similarly to the extended dance mixes. Just like "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'" -- you can't quite edit the 45 version down from the 12" mix. And "Way You Make Me Feel," "Another Part of Me," and "Smooth Criminal" all had separate "Radio Edits" which I think WERE actually edits of the dance mixes, all of them with cold endings, I believe. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 28 May 2005 at 4:52am
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Michael Jackson – The 45 Versions on CD, Part Two
Songs never issued on a full-length US CD in their 45 rpm versions are in red. Black or White– Issued as a two-track CD single in the US (UPC 0 9870-74100-2)matching the 45 and cassette singles. The single version ran 3:21, and it was basically the LP version minus the lengthy spoken intro, but with slightly different sound effects at the start. (It is not possible to edit the LP version to match the single.) All two-track configurations were backed with the single-length Instrumental. The single version is also available on Sony's “Pop Music: The Modern Era” and “Number Ones.” A promo CD of remixes was released several weeks later (after the single peaked, actually), and heavy airplay was given (on KUBE in Seattle, anyway) to the awesome House With Guitar Radio Mix (3:50), which was included on the US CD maxi-single for “Remember the Time” (UPC 0 9870-74201-2) and the import maxi-single called “Black or White - The Clivilles and Cole Remixes.” Remember the Time – The two-track configuration (45 and cassette) contained the LP Version b/w the aforementioned House With Guitar Radio Mix of “Black or White.” A maxi-CD single was issued in the US, including numerous remixes of “Remember the Time” and “Black or White,” but no two-track CD single was released stateside. In much of the world, the two-track single was backed with the non-LP track “Come Together,” featured in the “Moonwalker” video. In the Closet – The only single from “Dangerous” to use a remix for the A-side of the single. (As opposed to the “Bad” album, where most of the singles were remixes.) The 45 version is called the 7” Edit and runs 4:46. It was finally issues on a full-length CD on "Essential Michael Jackson" in 2005. It is very similar to the LP mix, but is slightly sped up, omits the spoken intro completely, adds some additional sound effects to the instrumental intro, and adds a slight amount of reverb to the vocals that is not present on the LP version, especially on the line, “'Cause if it's aching, you have to rub it.” Accounts vary on whether it is Madonna's spoken vocal in the song. Whitburn claims it's Princess Stephanie of Monaco, but I don't know where he's getting that info. It's a fact that Madonna DID record SOME song with him, and was assigned to co-write “In the Closet,” but he “didn't like” her ideas, as she said. And there is the rumor of how she refused to appear in the video of the song, so for the video both her voice and presence were replaced with the model Naomi Campbell. The B-side of the two-track single was another remix of the song, called The Mission Radio Edit, running 4:28, which ditched the jolting backing track of the original in favor of a smooth, pumping dance beat. It also retained the spoken intro, but cut one verse of the song. In some ways, I prefer this mix. It certainly seemed to be favored on KUBE in Seattle. Jam – The first real misstep in a long string of successes, this ill-advised song should never have been included on the “Dangerous” album at all, or at the very least given a drastically different mix. His first Epic solo single to miss the top ten since before the "Off the Wall" album. (“Another Part of Me” was safely Top Ten in both airplay and sales, but peaked on those respective charts weeks apart, so managed only a #11 placement on the Hot 100. I still consider it to be one of his top tens.) Despite a stellar video starring Michael Jordan, dazzling cinematography, and sizzling dancing from Michael, the somewhat clunky song song peaked at a miserable #26 on the Hot 100, though it actually did make it to #19 in sales. (BTW, the video used a very slightly different mix called “Video Mix,” which was released on one of the two Japanese CD5 singles.) The US cassette single used the 7” LP Edit (4:10) b/w the Masters at Work Remix of “Rock With You,” running 5:29. Again, no two-track CD single configuration in the US, and the 7” Edit was not included on the maxi-CD single, though the “Rock with You” remix was. To obtain the 45 version of “Jam” on CD, you had to go with an import single or one of the two promos. The two radio promos had a different cover than the commercial issue, both featuring a color photo of the two Michaels -- Jackson and Jordan -- playing basketball. In addition to remix edits, the promos contained a 3:52 7" Edit Without Rap, a longer 5:00 Radio Edit, and a 4:26 Radio Edit Without Rap, all edits of the LP mix. (The latter two had the cold ending of the album version, while the 7" edits faded.) There were so many mixes of “Jam” released that I literally can't fit them all onto one 80 minute CD. Between all the different CD singles from various countries, I'd say close to 20 different versions were released. (You know, the best is the a cappella “mix” on one of the promos -- just Michael's vocal, no beat, nothing. It's actually quite compelling) Heal the World – Another poor choice for a single, a surprising (yet perhaps not so surprising) release to plug Michael's Heal the World charity foundation. Although two separate radio edits were made of this 6:24 song, for some reason the full-length LP Version was used for the US 45, which was backed with the LP track “She Drives Me Wild.” Who is It– Worried by the poor chart showing of his last two singles (“Heal the World” charted even lower than “Jam”), Michael shifted into heavy P.R. mode. He arranged a 90-minute interview conducted by Oprah Winfrey, broadcast live from Neverland. During the show, he debuted the video for what was announced as his next single from “Dangerous,” the heavy-metal-style ballad “Give in to Me.” During the show, Oprah spontaneously asked him, “Sing me something a cappella. Sing 'Who Is It.'” Michael cooed a manipulative, “Well, I don't really want to, but I'll do it for you, Oprah,” then launched into a mesmerizing beat-box interpretation of the song's opening notes, where at times his mouth seemed to be making two or three different sounds at once. Then he sang the first verse and chorus of “Who Is It.” It was quite stunning. After the publicity from his impromptu performance, “Give in to Me” was canceled, and “Who Is It” was rush-released as a single with a lackluster video compiled from live concert footage. It had been previously released as a single in some European countries, so it's unclear why there wasn't a good video ready. A “real” video was released several weeks later, but too late -- the single had already peaked, and “Who is It,” fine a song as it is, managed only a #14 position on the Hot 100. If Michael had had a proper video ready to go, I think it could have made the top ten. “Give in to Me” was scrubbed completely as a US release, though it was released in much of the rest of the world. At any rate, the two-track cassette and 45 of “Who is It” featured the 7” Edit of the album version (4:00). The cassette was b/w the “The Oprah Winfrey Special Intro” version (3:59) – same as the LP edit, but with his beat box performance from “Oprah” substituted for the opening beats of the song. It's done very well, but somehow sounds less impressive than it did on TV. The 45 was b/w the Brothers in Rhythm House Mix of “Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'” (7:34), which had previously been released on several of the import CD singles of “Jam.” A CD maxi-single for “Who is It” was released in the US, but it did not contain the 7” Edit, only the Oprah Winfrey Special Intro version, along with other remixes. But the 7” Edit was widely available on import CD singles of the song, as well as on the US promo, and was recently issued on Sony's "Essential Michael Jackson." Will You Be There – Though not written for the children's film “Free Willy,” Michael agreed to let the song be used in the movie, and released the song as a single when the film was issued. There was no CD single released in the U.S., but the 45 and cassette singles used the short 3:39 edit of the song from the film's soundtrack CD, called “Will You Be There (Reprise).” (It was called “Radio Edit” on the 45 label, and was later included on Sony's "The Essential Michael Jackson.") This shortened version wisely cuts Michael's over-wrought spoken verse at the end of the song. This same version was issued on Sony's "Essential Michael Jackson." An Instrumental that ran the same length backed the single, but to my knowledge it has never appeared on CD. A promo CD single does exist, but it contains only the single version. Most countries got a longer edit of the song for their single, called simply “Edit,” running 5:18, which retained Michael's spoken verse, but sadly none of them contained the Instrumental. It was around this time that the Jordy Chandler case against Michael went public. (Chandler is in his mid-twenties now, so I don't know why the US media keeps protecting his name.) Michael released one last single from “Dangerous” after the news broke -- a somewhat mournful ballad called Gone Too Soon that was dedicated to AIDS victim Ryan White. Only a cassette single and 45 were issued stateside, both containing the LP Version b/w the Instrumental. The dour subject matter combined with the accusations swirling around him (and the fact that the single was dedicated to a little boy, even featuring his picture on the sleeve) caused this one to miss the Hot 100 completely. (If Michael had been smart, he'd have released “Why You Wanna Trip on Me” at this time.) Scream – The inevitable duet between Michael and his sister Janet received a lukewarm reception at radio, but sales of over a million copies allowed a top five placing on the Hot 100. Both a two-track CD single and a maxi CD single were released. The two-track CD (UPC 0 9870-78000-2 3) and cassette singles featured the censored LP version of the song, running the same 4:38, but with one difference – the line “Stop f**kin' with me” at 2:51 on the LP version has been replaced with “Stop pressurin' me.” All configurations of the single contained the LP Version of “Childhood,” which was serviced to radio, but failed to even chart in airplay. Whitburn refers to it as a “sales flip,” a song that for some reason was listed on the Hot 100 with its hit A-side, but was not a hit itself. You Are Not Alone – Michael's last (and probably final) number one hit. The two track CD (UPC 0 9870-78002-2) and cassette singles used a 4:54 edit of the LP Version, b/w “Scream Louder (Flyte Time Remix),” a 5:27 remix of “Scream.” The 4:54 version was issued on "Essential Michael Jackson." Next, a presumably planned single of Earth Song b/w This Time Around was scrubbed. Promo CDs with multiple remixes were sent to radio (individual ones for each song, and one with both “Earth Song” and “This Time Around” remixes, which is what I own), but the single was never released commercially. “Earth Song” was released in most of the rest of the world, including England, where it hit #1, but “This Time Around” did not see a commercial release anywhere. They Don't Really Care About Us - The third commercial single from “HiStory” in the US. What had been only a minor controversy when the album was released was reignited, since the song, a diatribe against racism in America, contained the phrases “Jew me, sue me” and “kick me, kike me.” Michael of course denied any anti-semitic meaning in the lines, claiming once again to be “misunderstood,” but agreed to remove the offensive words... which involved dubbing a crash-type sound effect over one and “buzzing” type sound over the other. (You can still hear them if you know what he's saying, though.) It was allegedly censored on future pressings of "HiStory," but I bought one of the ones with a sticker claiming it was censored, and it wasn't. I don't know if it was ever actually done or not. However, the censored 45 version was later included on the UK edition of Sony's "The Essential Michael Jackson." The standard commercial CD (UPC 098707826429) and cassette singles were four tracks – They Don't Care About Us (single version – 4:43), Rock With You (Frankie Knuckles Radio Mix), Earth Song (Hani's Radio Experience), and Wanna Be Starin' Somethin' (Brothers in Rhythm Mix). The vinyl 45 contained the single version b/w the Frankie Knuckles "Rock With You" mix. A maxi-single with multiple remixes was also released. The single only manged #30 on the Hot 100 due to almost non-existant airplay, but made a reasonable #12 in sales. Blood on the Dance Floor - “HiStory” was allegedly planned as a two-part project, with a second disc of remixes and some new songs released called “Blood on the Dance Floor: History in the Mix.” The Album Version (4:12) of the title track was released as a two-track 45, three-track cassette single, and four-track CD single (UPC 0 9870-780072 6). The 45 was b/w Roger's Dangerous Edit of the song "Dangerous." A maxi single with extended remixes also released. The single managed #32 on Billboard's Singles Sales chart the week it was released, but dropped from there as it never even got a toe hold at radio. An entire article was published in Billboard about why radio wouldn't play “Blood on the Dance Floor,” but I haven't read it. But lack of airplay caused it to miss the Hot 100's top forty entirely. A second single was released, Stranger in Moscow... which was actually from “HiStory Book One.” Only a remix of that song was included on the “Blood on the Dance Floor” album, an edit of which backed the 45 (the A-side being a 4:03 edit of the LP version). But fine a song as it was, it failed to chart at all. You Rock My World – The time between the release of “Blood on the Dance Floor” and “Invincible” was the longest wait for any Michael Jackson album. The leadoff, “You Rock My World,” was released commercially as a vinyl jukebox 45, both sides containing the full-length 5:37 album version with spoken intro featuring Chris Tucker. Despite Michael's butchering his appearance still further in the intervening years, the song did surprisingly well at radio, well enough to climb to the top ten on the Hot 100. It's a shame the song was not available commercially as a CD single – it would likely have hit #1, as the album did. Next, Cry was serviced to radio shortly after 9/11 (according to Michael's camp, at the request of radio programmers... right), but did not chart. Surprisingly, it was released as a vinyl 45 also, I believe featuring the 5:00 album version on both sides. Commercial import CD singles of the song contained the non-LP track “Shout.” Butterflies - The third single from “Invincible” was not commercially issued as a single in any format anywhere in the world. There were two separate radio promos in the US, one containing the 4:40 LP version, and one with a remix called Trackmasters Remix, which I have not heard. Your guess is as good as mine as to what the single version would be, but I lean towards the Album Version. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 29 May 2005 at 9:44pm
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Brian:
I'd like to commend you on an outstanding single version discography of Michael Jackson's Top 40 hits. With the plethora of remixes, edits, and singles formats out there, your posts will definitely help collectors sort through all the chaos! I can certainly appreciate the time and effort that went this project. I was surprised to learn that the commercial single releases of "Another Part of Me" and "Smooth Criminal" are remixes. I also didn't realize these two songs have their own separate radio mixes/edits. How long do the DJ edits of "Another Part of Me" and "Smooth Criminal" run? |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 30 May 2005 at 1:31am
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Thanks, Todd. Yeah, that was LOT of work, more than I'd anticipated. I hadn't intended it to turn into an essay on each song, but it always seemed to.
Actually, all the uptempo singles from "Bad" had separate Radio Edit remixes in addition to the 45 remixes. Another Part of Me (Radio Edit) runs an actual 4:24. It has a "breakdown" in the middle of the song, with just the rhythm track running under single lines from earlier in the song that are repeated -- "We're takin' over, hee hee," "This is our doomsday," etc. And it ends cold with an "Owww!" Smooth Criminal (Extended Dance Remix Radio Edit) runs an actual 5:22. There's an echo on his "Cha!" at the beginning of the song that pans quickly right and left. There's an instrumental section in the middle with only his backing "I don't know, I don't know, dad gone it, Annie" playing over it. And again, it ends cold with an "Oww!" The Dance Remix Radio Edit of "Bad" runs an actual 4:55, and does NOT end cold like the album version does. The remixes for the song "Bad" are unique in that they contain additional vocal not on the album version. There's a long instrumental section in the middle with MJ ad libs, including "David!" right before a guitar solo starts. Towards the end, he repeats several verses of the song with a different, improvised melody. The Extended mix has a "false fade"... the song fades out to almost zero, then the horns come in full strength, and all the rest is Michael improvising the melody, laughing, scatting, "Do, do, do, do, do, do." The remixes of "Bad" are great. Some of that is in the Radio Edit also. The Japanese CD5 maxi singles of "Bad" and "Smooth Criminal" with all the remixes (except the 45 version and instrumental for Smooth Criminal) are both still in print and can be purchased at www.cdjapan.co.jp. The "Bad" maxi-single has no cover shown, but go into the item, then click at the bottom of the page where it says "See this item details at neowing.co.jp (our Japanese website)" and you'll see it only has five tracks, so it's got to be the maxi-single, not the album. (The $12.71 price would indicate that as well.) I've ordered from them several times and they're extremely reliable, but expect to pay around $10 for shipping from Japan. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 30 May 2005 at 1:55am
| I've updated the discography with the ACTUAL running time of the 45 version of "Jam" and added a note regarding the four different LP edits contained on the promo CD singles for "Jam." |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 09 July 2005 at 1:47pm
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I have some encouraging news to report for Michael Jackson fans and singles collectors alike. Ed e-mailed me to let me know that on July 19 Sony will be releasing a double CD compilation called The Essential Michael Jackson (catalog #94287) with what appears to be many of the pop superstar's hit 45 versions! I checked out the track listing on www.allmusic.com and sure enough most of the run times on the track listing match up with those of the 45 versions!
You can view the track listing and run time at this web address: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:3bvyxdsb5ola Let's hope this is the real deal... After all, a compilation of Michael Jackson single versions is certainly long overdue! |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 09 July 2005 at 2:47pm
| That is AWESOME news, Todd, if these truly are the 45 versions. I'll be picking up my copy the day it comes out! |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 09 July 2005 at 3:18pm
|
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
No, that wasn't enough... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!! I knew this was coming out, and I knew the first disc had 21 tracks including "Thriller" and "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'," so I figured they must have used the single edits. But I spent over an hour combing the Internet looking for a track listing with run times, and was unable to find one. I just checked All Music yesterday... they must have just posted it! FINALLY... The 45 version of "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'." I really thought I'd never see the day. Now all his solo singles will have been released on CD in their exact 45 versions. If the run times are accurate, it looks like they used the 45 versions for everything except "Thriller." Looks like the used the longer radio edit for that one. Which I could understand... can you imagine how people would "howl" (no pun intended) if they bought this disc, and no Vincent Price rap? I CANNOT wait for this. It actually was supposed to come out last Tuesday, but it's been delayed until the 19th. Thanks, Todd and Ed! You made my week!!! |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 09 July 2005 at 3:22pm
| DUPLICATE POST |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 09 July 2005 at 3:27pm
| In looking at the run times, the only three songs from the 80s era that don't have times matching the 45 versions are "Thriller" (which appears to be the DJ Edit that is also on Number Ones), "Smooth Criminal" (which appears to be the LP version on Essential) and "Man In The Mirror" (but the 45 version as stated above can be found on Number Ones). |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 09 July 2005 at 3:32pm
| Well, it's interesting, there are slightly different track listings floating around... The one Sony Music and on all the UK retailer sites has 21 tracks. But most of the US retailers omit "Can You Feel It" in their track list. So I hope to God we don't burned on this. If it just has the single version of "Wanna Be," I'll be happy. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 09 July 2005 at 3:37pm
| If it doesn't turn out to have the single version of "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'" I have a version edited to match the 45, which uses 1 second of the 45 where the mix is different. It's very hard to tell that I transferred that one second from the 45. But let's hope we get the real deal on July 19. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 11 July 2005 at 3:33am
|
Well, I'm still holding my breath for this release, but I did add up the run times for disc one, and they certainly are PLAUSIBLE -- disc one would run 78:51, and I think disc two added up to around 76:30 or thereabouts.
I also noticed the 45 version of "I Just Can't Stop Loving You" with the spoken intro is not included... that's the running time for the common radio edit. I guess it's buried forever. (It oughta be, that spoken intro is just embarrassing.) Oh, well, it's not that hard to find on the original pressings of the "Bad" CD. And I notice "Jam" is not included on this collection at all, so that's another one that remains unissued on a full-length CD, though it's all over the place on the old import CD singles. "Scream" is missing as well. Strange that they included the 7:00 "Dangerous" instead of two actual hits. Also, I take it back about ALL his singles being on CD now... the single mix of his duet with Stevie Wonder, "Get It," I don't think has ever been issued on CD. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 11 July 2005 at 9:07am
|
Brian:
Regarding the 45 version of "I Just Can't Stop Loving You", the spoken introduction was removed shortly after the Bad album was released and it's apparent the brass at Sony and/or Michael Jackson himself don't want anyone to remember this intro ever existed. Would you happen to know the story behind why the spoken lyrics were removed? Also, I notice Pat has listed all CD appearances of "Rock with You" as being remixed. You don't suppose the upcoming Essential CD would have the 45 version remixed as well, do you? The original mix was superior in my opinion and I would hope the 45 edit will be taken from the singles masters and not "recreated" by editing the remixed LP version. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 11 July 2005 at 11:42am
| That's interesting, Todd. My book says "LP Version" next to "Rock With You." What was the difference between the original mix and the "remix"? |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 11 July 2005 at 12:25pm
|
Aaron:
I don't have the original mix, but I remember reading on another message board that the handclaps are louder and more centered in the remix. Can anyone back me up on this? |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 11 July 2005 at 1:01pm
|
I think I'm the one that let Pat know about that after the ninth edition. There are no handclaps at all on the ORIGINAL album version of "Rock With You." At some point after the song was remixed for the single, the full-length remix was swapped on the vinyl albums (just like the full-length remix of "The Way You Make Me Feel" seems to have become the standard version).
This switch happened looooong before the CD era began, so most people aren't even aware of it. It sounds smoother without the handclaps, has sort of a dreamy quality to it. Also replaced on the vinyl album was the original mix of "Get on the Floor," using the mix that's on the B-side of the remixed single of "Off the Wall," and that is what has wound up on all CDs of "Off the Wall" as well. However, a few months ago I discovered I'd had the original mix of "Get on the Floor" all along on the UK maxi-single of "Liberian Girl." But the original mix of "Rock With You" has never been issued on CD, to my knowledge. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 11 July 2005 at 2:19pm
|
Regarding the spoken intro to "I Just Can't Loving You," Todd, I'm not sure exactly why it was switched. All I know is that when the US CD3 came out (months after the single was a hit... around the time "Another Part of Me" was released, I think), that was the first time I'd heard the no-intro version on CD.
A while later, when my "Bad" CD album became scratched or lost, I bought a new one, and found that the radio version had been substituted on the album. I'm gonna guess that was about a year to a year and a half after the "Bad" album was released. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 11 July 2005 at 2:21pm
| That's interesting. I wonder what version of "Rock With You" my vinyl LP has... It's packed away at my parents' house, but I'd be willing to bet it's not the original, since it was purchased around the same time as the Thriller album. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 11 July 2005 at 10:53pm
|
A friend of mine has the first Japanese pressing of Off The Wall on CD (matrix # 35 8P-2 71A6), and it has the original mix of "Rock With You" without the hand claps. So, this mix HAS been available on CD, although I'm sure this pressing from Japan is pretty hard to find.
Also, I checked the commercial 45, and that mix DOES contain the hand claps. So, Todd, your wish for having the original mix show up on Essential probably won't come true since the 45 version IS the remixed version. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 11 July 2005 at 10:59pm
| Oh, damn, damn, damn. Many years ago I had the original Japanese pressing. I want to hit myself in the head with a board now! |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 11 July 2005 at 11:00pm
| Ouch! I wouldn't recommend that, Brian. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 11 July 2005 at 11:11pm
|
That's why I've more or less given up getting rid of my old CDs that I THINK are duplicated on other discs. I can't count how many times I've sold a CD, then found out later there was something unique on it. I used to sell on Ebay quite a bit... I haven't been a seller in almost two years, largely because of this type of thing.
I gave up the old one because I thought the first US pressing would be "better." I didn't notice any difference at the time, but when I obtained that cassette copy of "Off the Wall" a year or so ago, I did think that no-handclaps mix sounded familiar. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 14 July 2005 at 3:49am
|
Bad news. The tracklisting for Essential Michael Jackson has been removed from All Music Guide. I don't know of any reason for this except that they were informed it was inaccurate.
Nonetheless, Sony Music Store still shows it containing the same tracks on disc one, and I still don't see how they could fit all those on there without using single edits. But like I said, several retailers are only showing 20 tracks on disc one... which would certainly leave room for the LP version of "Wanna Be." |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 14 July 2005 at 6:34am
|
Brian:
I just checked the All Music Guide website and you'll be happy to know the track listing is back up. From what I can see, the run times all still look the same so we may get our single version yet. :-) |
Posted By: Pat Downey
Date Posted: 14 July 2005 at 8:06am
| I have the "Essential" cd and I will post the specifics on the "review" board later today. Disc 1 has 21 tracks with a total running time of 78:58, disc 2 has 17 tracks with a total running time of 78:52. The only 2 LP versions appear to be Man In The Mirror and Smooth Criminal. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 14 July 2005 at 11:08am
|
Thanks, Pat! This is gonna be a long few hours...
And even a longer four days... :D :D :D |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 14 July 2005 at 11:28am
Huh... doesn't show on my computer. And I even cleared my cash and pressed CNTRL-REFRESH... still blank. {EDIT: That's "cache," not cash!] |
Todd Ireland wrote:Posted By: Moderator
Date Posted: 14 July 2005 at 4:11pm
|
The review I mentioned above is now posted on the "review" board. ------------- Top 40 Music On Compact Disc Moderator |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 14 July 2005 at 4:27pm
|
Yeeeeeehawwww!
(One correction, Pat: You have "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough" listed as "LP length." If it runs 5:51, that's the 45 length (see my discography). The LP length is about 6:03. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 14 July 2005 at 5:31pm
|
Pat:
Thanks for your review of the Michael Jackson Essential CD. You report that "Rock with You" is the 45 version on this compilation. Is this the original 45 mix without the handclaps, or the remixed 45 version with handclaps that seems to have become the standard on all Michael Jackson releases for over the past 20 years? |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 14 July 2005 at 5:47pm
|
No, you're misunderstanding, Todd... The 45 version is the remixed version with the handclaps... it's just got an edit in the instrumental break, whereas the full-length remixed version was later included on the LP.
The version without the handclaps was only on the early pressings of the LP and cassette and, as Aaron recently uncovered, the original Japanese pressings of the CD. The original mix was never issued on 45. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 14 July 2005 at 6:07pm
| I gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up, Brian. |
Posted By: Moderator
Date Posted: 14 July 2005 at 8:22pm
|
You are right Brian, "Don't Stop Til You Get Enough " is the 45 length (I didn't even read my handwritten notes correctly) so I will go modify the review right now. ------------- Top 40 Music On Compact Disc Moderator |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 19 July 2005 at 2:07pm
| Be sure to read the thread "Michael Jackson 2 CD Essential" to find out all the songs we thought we were getting 45 versions of, but they tricked us by offering up LP edits. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 29 July 2005 at 4:59pm
| I went back to read over some of Brian's notes on the Michael Jackson singles discography found at the beginning of this thread and am pleased to discover Brian has updated some of the information in light of the recent, much talked about Essential CD release. I didn't realize until now that he even notes differences between printed and actual commercial single run times not mentioned in the 10th edition of T40MOCD. An outstanding reference guide, to say the least! |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 30 July 2005 at 3:56pm
|
Well, the UK edition of "Essential" has some different tracks, but exactly the same mastering engineer as the US version, with the same bum "recreations" of the single edits. The UK version omits "Enjoy Yourself," uses the radio edit of "Don't Stop Till You Get Enough" that was on "Number Ones," and omits "Dangerous" in favor of the radio edit of "Earth Song" and the censored single version of "They Don't Care About Us."
The fact that the Japanese version isn't coming out till the end of August gives me a teeny-weeny amount of hope that maybe they're doing their own mastering and will use the correct versions. But I ain't holding my breath. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 30 July 2005 at 4:42pm
|
Brian:
Speaking of "They Don't Care About Us", do you know if all commercial single copies contained the censored version? By the way, that seems to be a very fitting song title as we continue to discuss the many disappointments on the recent Essential CD release! |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 30 July 2005 at 11:57pm
| Yes, to my knowledge, the commercial single was censored only. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 20 September 2005 at 9:21am
|
Brian:
Did you ever receive your Japanese version of the Michael Jackson Essential CD? Since you never reported back about it, should we take this to mean the Japanese version also contains the bogus recreations of the single edits? |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 21 September 2005 at 4:01am
| Yes, about three weeks ago. It uses the same recreated edits as are on the US release, with just a couple different tracks. Dashed once again. (Though it does have a lovely booklet, much nicer than the US version.) |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 16 March 2006 at 7:22pm
|
I've updated the MJ discography with notes on the new Sony UK "Video Singles Collection," as the US 45 version of "Thriller" is finally made available again on CD. The mastering engineer for this set posts on the Steve Hoffman board from time to time, and he did post that the whole set is mastered from the original single masters, so they should all contain the true 45 versions.
But as is typical of CDs these days, they're maximized, compressed sound. And no singles for Human Nature or Wanna Be Startin' Somethin', as there were no videos for those. But where they really blew it was not including the non-LP B-sides like "Can't Get Outta the Rain," instead opting for the extended mixes as bonus tracks, which have all been issued on CD before. |
Posted By: Jeff H.
Date Posted: 08 April 2006 at 3:29pm
Brian, "You Rock My World" was also issued as a promo only 12". There were two different releases. One with the LP version, Instrumental, and Acapella. This version was also issued commercially in the UK. The second issue was also promo only in the US. It was a remix done by the Trackmasters, sampling Biz Markie's "Nobody Beats The Biz", and features a rap by Jay-Z. It clocks in at 3:28 and has the same track on both sides. The cut was very popular in clubs and got a lot of mix show airplay but Epic never issued it commercially anywhere. "Butterflies" had a similar release pattern also. This track was also released as an import 12" with the original mixes. The US promo again features a remixed version(again by The Trackmasters) sampling Issac Hayes "A Few More Kisses To Go" and features a rap by Eve. The promo 12" has the remix one side, an Instrumental, and an Acapella on the other side. |
Posted By: anthology123
Date Posted: 09 August 2006 at 6:31pm
|
I was in Wash DC this last week on business and found the MJ single box set
with the Thriller 45 mix. I thought I could never pick that one up in a B&M. It was a pain to lug home, but worth it. Are there any of the other MJ video singles worth buying? |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 11 August 2006 at 12:25pm
Well, I believe they ALL contain the US single versions. The guy who mastered it posted on the Steve Hoffman website some time ago that they were all mastered from the original single masters. (Sad that there were no videos for Human Nature or Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'.) The sound quality is very good on all of them... though they're all the typical maximized and compressed sound you get on CDs these days. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 11 August 2006 at 12:44pm
| I guess Smooth Criminal, Way You Make Me Feel, Jam, and Beat It (which is faded a few seconds earlier than the LP) are the ones which contain 45 versions hard to find elsewhere commerically. |
Posted By: chendagam
Date Posted: 29 August 2006 at 7:17pm
I picked up the promo 45 of Human Nature hoping it was different and was disappointed when I looked at the run time. You guys have really openned my eyes. I dusted off my Thriller album and compared it to the 45 and it is different! I really have to start to pay better attention. |
Posted By: chendagam
Date Posted: 30 August 2006 at 2:51pm
Question about "Thriller." Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thriller_%28song%29) lists the following mixes: Album Version 5:56 Instrumental 5:56 7" Edit 4:37 Re-Mixed Short Version 4:09 Single Edit w/Rap 5:11 I have the album version, instrumental, re-mixed short version (which I'm assuming is the one mentioned above with the Vincent Price removal), and the Single Edit w/rap. Can someone explain what the 7" edit that runs for 4:37 is and where to find it. |
Posted By: chendagam
Date Posted: 30 August 2006 at 3:14pm
| Are all the DVD singles that are being re-released the same. Amazon has different tracklistings than ones on ebay. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 30 August 2006 at 4:55pm
I believe the 4:37 7" edit was the UK single version, which contains only the first part of the rap, then an instrumental part that fades out. It's on the Michael Jackson "Tour Souvenir Pack," a set of four CD singles that came out in the UK during the Dangerous tour. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 30 August 2006 at 4:58pm
Can you give me some examples of differences? |
Posted By: chendagam
Date Posted: 30 August 2006 at 8:59pm
|
On Ebay:
AUDIO TRACKLISTING 1. Thriller (4.09) 2. Thriller ? Album version (5.58) DVD TRACKLISTING Thriller ? Original Music Video Amazon: 1. Album Version 2. Video Product Description Each Limited Edition, numbered Dual Disc includes the classic single, it's original B-Side or Alternate Version along with it's accompanying video on the flip. Amazon.co.uk: 1. Thriller 2. Thriller – Album version ******** To me it sounds like Amazon USA has it all screwed up. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 30 August 2006 at 10:05pm
| I think it's probably an error on Amazon. As far as I know, there is only one version of each disc. |
Posted By: chendagam
Date Posted: 29 October 2006 at 6:21pm
| The database states 2 different times for "The Girl is Mine." One being 3.32 (promo) and the other being 3.41 (commercial). I can remember as a kid hearing a version on the radio without the center (end) "rap" between Paul and Michael. I'm guessing that was a radio station edit but am curious if anyone has the promo 45 to tell us the difference. There is a copy on ebay right now for $75 which I'm not going to pay to find out :) |
Posted By: Gary
Date Posted: 29 October 2006 at 6:42pm
Interestingly enough, I just found this promo single stuck in the middle of some others that were out of place. I forgot all about this. Yes, this version is called "New Edited Version" and it does eliminate the "rap" between Michael & Paul.
|
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 29 October 2006 at 7:00pm
| Is there something unique to the mix, or can the LP version be edited to make this version? |
Posted By: chendagam
Date Posted: 29 October 2006 at 7:27pm
|
Wow! So it was an official edit after all these years. That rap is only 9 seconds??? I don't think so.
Is the words "new edited version" listed on the promo 45? |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 29 October 2006 at 8:09pm
|
No, it can't be edited from the LP version (unique mix where [I believe] half the rap was.
Andy |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 29 October 2006 at 9:23pm
| Very interesting info! Thanks, Andrew. |
Posted By: Gary
Date Posted: 30 October 2006 at 7:13am
|
They take out the rap that goes from 3:00-3:19 and throw in an extra verse of "mine, oh mine" then starts again where Paul says "I don't believe it!"
The label is marked New Edited Version. It is a white epic label - #34-03288
|
Posted By: chendagam
Date Posted: 30 October 2006 at 4:34pm
|
So, is this a pretty rare promo or do you guys see if floating around all the time?
|
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 30 October 2006 at 8:02pm
Apparently, it's not that rare or valuable. Another copy on ebay just ended for $3.49. |
Posted By: chendagam
Date Posted: 09 November 2006 at 10:19pm
|
I'm still a bit confused at the main difference of "wanna be starting something" on the Essential CD vs. the 45. I understand that the 45 version is an edit of the 12" version. I'm just confused at the main differences between the Essential edit and the 45 version.
Thank you. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 09 November 2006 at 11:21pm
The Essential version is a new edit of the ALBUM VERSION. So it's not even the right mix. The 45 version was not exactly an edit of the 12-inch remix, but a short version mixed like the 12-inch. It is not possible to accurately edit the 12-inch mix down, mainly because of the "Billie Jean is always talking" line, which on both LP and 12-inch versions has the tail end of a horn over the word "Billie," which is absent on the 45. Also, there is a teeny difference in the opening "You're too high to get over" on the single. On the 12-inch, it's "A-too high to get over," not "YOU'RE too high to get over," which it clearly is on the 45. |
Posted By: chendagam
Date Posted: 10 November 2006 at 12:46pm
| Thanks for the information. Now I can go back and compare. I still think it's great to have these new edits from the essential cd. |
Posted By: waldo
Date Posted: 09 August 2007 at 8:12am
|
Has the 3:43 single version of You Can't Win - Michael's first single on 'Epic' ever been issued onto CD?
i know the 7:19 extended version has. technically of course this only reached #81 so it is not a Top 40 hit. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 09 August 2007 at 9:50am
No, I don't think so. Can it be faded from the extended version? I've never actually heard the 45. |
Posted By: waldo
Date Posted: 10 August 2007 at 4:30am
|
hey Brian.
no it can't be faded at all from the extended version as it ends completely different - with Michael doing a very cool kind of soulful affectation, exactly the same way as in the movie and on The Wiz soundtrack album. interesting thread.. i have enjoyed reading it. also i have read most of your Jackson-related posts over on the Steve Hoffman forum too.. always very informative. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 02 October 2007 at 3:29am
|
Whoo hoo! "Can't Get Outta the Rain," the rare B-side to Billie Jean, Girl is Mine, and Thriller, is making its worldwide CD debut on October 23rd!!! God bless Ringles!
http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?cart=606352401&style=music&PID=7523027 - Thriller Ringle |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 02 October 2007 at 11:03am
| FINALLY! I was just thinking about about that song yesterday and wondering if it was ever going to be released on CD. It looks like shortly after the ringle is released, Thriller 25 is coming out on CD with bonus tracks and a DVD. I haven't been able to find any info on the track listing for the album yet. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 02 October 2007 at 8:10pm
| Can anyone give me the number on the Epic white label promo for "The Girl Is Mine?" Unfortunately, cheapest I've seen for sale is $15.00. Wouldn't wanna spend that kind of $$$ if the length is the same as the stock 45. Would be looking for the 3:21 edit w/o the Paul/Michael rap. |
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 02 October 2007 at 9:47pm
|
To eriejwg:
It's 34-03288 [ZSS 169202] labeled "NEW EDITED VERSION". Andy |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 02 October 2007 at 9:57pm
| Thanks Andrew. Good thing I double checked the listing on GEMM. It says: 3:41 version (US W/L PROMO ONLY. Epic 34-03288. |
Posted By: waldo
Date Posted: 08 October 2007 at 8:17am
|
i do hope SONY don't screw it up again and let all us down with changing the content of the forthcoming ringle. it just seems too good to be true for them to issue the correct Girl Is Mine flip.
also coming out soon is another re-issue of Thriller.. "Thriller25", celebrating the 25th anniversary.. that's supposed to have rare out-takes added on. promises.. promises |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 08 October 2007 at 11:49am
|
Yeah, I'm a little nervous, too, Waldo. I still haven't forgotten the canceled "Thriller CD Singles" collection from Australia.
Though I'm not entirely sure the "Thriller 25" is going to have any special content on it... the only tracklist I can find online just lists the original lineup plus a DVD: http://www.play.com/Music/CD/4-/3477997/Thriller-25th-Annive rsary/Product.html |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 18 October 2007 at 5:31pm
|
According to a Roger Friedman story on Fox news, four songs from "Thriller" are being remixed by Akon, Kanye West, and Will.I.Am, and will be included as bonus tracks on the upcoming 25th Annivesary CD. The songs are Girl is Mine, Billie Jean, PYT, and Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'.
The article also quotes his longime engineer Bruce Swedien as saying that four tracks recorded for the "Thriller" sessions will be included, one of them called "Don't Be Messin' Around." I wonder if that's the track that was dropped just before release. As told by both Quincy Jones and Michael, the album was originally 10 songs, mixed very dense and running 50 minutes, but it sounded so horribly compressed on the vinyl test pressing that one song was dropped and the rest of the album remixed more sparesely. (I've always wondered if the "extended" versions of Billie Jean and Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' are actually the original album mixes.) |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 18 October 2007 at 6:17pm
|
The extended mix of "Billie Jean" doesn't sound too much different (if at all) from the LP version. I've never done a close comparison, but it was my guess that the LP version was edited from the extended mix. Are there mix differences that you can spot?
Also, did anyone pick up the ringle of "Thriller?" Do we really finally have "Can't Get Outta The Rain" on CD? |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 18 October 2007 at 8:31pm
| It doesn't come out till next Tuesday, Aaron. I've got it on preorder, but if it doesn't come on Monday, I may go down to Virgin Megastore in Hollywood and get it Monday night at midnight. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 18 October 2007 at 8:43pm
| Oh, that's right. I was thinking it came out on the 17th. They closed our Virgin Megastore in Dallas :( I'll probably just wait until Tuesday afternoon. |
Posted By: 80smusicfreak
Date Posted: 19 October 2007 at 1:31am
Brian W.: Since you brought up this new re-issue of "Thriller" and its possible bonus tracks, I wish to call upon your MJ expertise, if I may... :-) I have 2004's "The Ultimate Collection" box set, and I'll assume you do, too. I really like the funk sound of track #17 on disc one, which is a demo version of a previously-unreleased song, titled "Sunset Driver". However, there is conflicting info regarding the song's origin in the 60-page booklet that accompanies the box set... In Nelson George's liner notes on pg. 23, where he discusses the song, he states, "'Sunset Driver' didn't make 'Off the Wall'". IMO, that clearly implies that it was recorded in late '78/early '79, for that album. The tracks on the box set are also sequenced more or less in chronological order, sandwiching the track in between MJ's hits from 1979's "Off the Wall" and The Jacksons' 1980 album, "Triumph", which would further seem to back George's claim... However, the detailed credits for the song on pg. 7 of the booklet state for "Sunset Driver", "Recorded 1982". This, of course, would indicate that it was actually one of the "Thriller" rejects. And using my own personal expertise on funk and r&b from that era, when I listen to the song, it DOES sound more like it was recorded in '82, as opposed to '79... By chance do you have more definitive info??? If not, what's your take when you listen to it??? :-) Was "Sunset Driver" an "Off the Wall" reject, or rather, a "Thriller" reject??? If the latter, I hope it's included as one the four bonus tracks on that upcoming re-issue... Any info appreciated! |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 19 October 2007 at 1:51am
|
I don't have any more info, I'm afraid. I can only assume that "Sunset Driver" was written for "Off the Wall," not used, and the demo re-recorded for "Thriller." I'm not sure.
I do know that Michael says "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'" was written for "Off the Wall," but he didn't think it was any good, so he didn't show it to Quincy Jones at the time. |
Posted By: waldo
Date Posted: 22 October 2007 at 6:01am
| Brian, it was an OTW outtake, but i think Michael might have gone back to it during the Thriller sessions and rejected it again. that book in the box set is littered with many, many mistakes. for instance: Scared Of The Moon from the book Scared Of The Moon???? there was no such book. it's all very wishy washy. probably put together by some Sony person that knows very little about Jackson. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 22 October 2007 at 12:53pm
|
"Billie Jean" is now scheduled for Ringle release on 11/20, and it also will feature "Can't Get Outta the Rain."
Some other interesting catalog singles have been scheduled for release as Ringles: Wham's "Everything She Wants" (which so far just lists "Remix" on the tracklisting on Amazon), Gene Autry's "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer" (with the original 1949 picture sleeve!), "9 to 5" by Dolly Parton, and "All I Want for Xmas" by Mariah Carey (its first domestic CD single release), among others. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 22 October 2007 at 11:18pm
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F**K!!! All the ringles have been pushed back two weeks to November 6th! I knew this was going to happen. How much you wanna bet me that, if they miss Halloween, they won't release the Thriller ringle at all?
Well, if they release Billie Jean, and it's got "Can't Get Outta the Rain," then it won't really matter. I knew this was going to happen... it's like the Australian "Thriller Singles" situation all over again. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 23 October 2007 at 12:58am
I'm not saying it's not a possibility, but I would think that by now those singles...er, ringles...have already been pressed up. Don't they have to be pressed and ready for sale several weeks in advance? Let's hope that "Thriller" is just waiting in a warehouse and ready to be sold. If not, I suppose we can live with just having "Billie Jean" for that elusive b-side. |
Posted By: waldo
Date Posted: 23 October 2007 at 3:56am
i agree, i'm not even surprised. Sony are useless, time and time again. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 23 October 2007 at 4:38pm
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The situation with the ringles is not Sony's fault, I found out. Here's what happened: they're all pressed, and most of the stores have them in stock... but the phone companies have not finished setting up to accept the ringtones. So they can't sell them because the ringtones can't be activated yet. That's why they've been pushed to 11/6.
Best Buy and FYE both had the ringles in stock, but not out. The guy at Best Buy was actually going to sell me one when I told him I didn't care about the ringtone. But, of course, neither store had gotten "Thriller" in for some reason. Which makes me even more nervous that that one will be canceled altogether. But FYE told me they had six "Thriller" ringles on order, so we'll see. |
Posted By: 80smusicfreak
Date Posted: 24 October 2007 at 12:41am
Hmmm, maybe. I just know that when I listen to it, the instrumentation/production SOUNDS much more like the version on the box set was recorded in '82. Thanks for the input!
Agreed. I, too, spotted at least a couple more errors, but after all, it IS a pretty lengthy essay...
As I stated in my original post, they were actually written by renowned author & former "Billboard" r&b columnist Nelson George (see pg. 19)... |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 24 October 2007 at 1:01am
It's strange how "experts" can be wrong. I remember jazz writer Will Friedwald, considered an expert on Frank Sintra, said in his liner notes for the Sinatra "Capitol Singles" set that it was too bad the single of his duet with Bing Crosby, "Well, Did You Evah," had omitted a line of dialogue that was in the "High Society" film version. Well, that line WAS in the single... it was just omitted from the boxed set's remixed version! (Which was longer than the single as well... the mono single edit has never been issued on CD.) |
Posted By: 80smusicfreak
Date Posted: 24 October 2007 at 1:33am
Ah, interesting tidbit - never knew that. Thanks for the response...
Hmmm, my local Borders bookstore here in NH must not have gotten the memo, lol. Was there about 7-8 hours ago (Tuesday evening), when a fairly large cardboard display bin caught my attention. Walked up and realized it was filled w/ a couple hundred new CDs in slim 5" x 5" cardsleeves - yep, it was a special display made just for the new ringles! Spent about five minutes checking 'em out, but didn't buy any (yet) - all were Sony/BMG artists/titles...
Didn't see any of those particular titles. There's a prominent color band w/ the "ringle" logo at the top of every sleeve, and the color of that band varies from title to title. The catalog titles (which I paid much more attention to) were indeed interesting: "Eye of the Tiger" by Survivor, Europe's "The Final Countdown", and (ugh!) "Girls Just Want to Have Fun" by Cyndi Lauper; even Cheap Trick, among others. Based on my somewhat-limited knowledge of picture sleeves (don't really collect vinyl 45s), it appears that Sony/BMG used the same cover art for the new ringles as appeared on the original 45 picture sleeves - even retaining the original B-sides from the 45s, too (as you indicated would be the case w/ "Billie Jean"). There were some current titles mixed in as well (Jennifer Lopez, etc.); even some currents by country acts! Didn't see MJ's "Billie Jean" or "Thriller", although I admit I didn't pick through every ringle in the display bin... And I know some of these ringles have already escaped in other areas, too - a couple hours ago while doing time on eBay, I found a seller already offering a handful of them, complete w/ pictures... Edited to add: Borders' price for the ringles was a decent $4.99 each, BTW... |
Posted By: waldo
Date Posted: 24 October 2007 at 5:44am
the essay yes. but the information and recording credits printed under each song were not written by Nelson George. and on those pages there are alot of mistakes. some of the Bad singles say recorded in '88 for instance. there are also mistakes in the essay. i spotted one straight away, regarding the address of the house in Gary, Indiana. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 24 October 2007 at 1:03pm
| I certainly like the idea of having the catalog "ringles" titles issued with their original picture sleeves and B-sides. I just hope Sony is equally faithful in reproducing the correct 45 versions and lengths for these songs as well. Who knows, maybe this is how we'll eventually obtain the elusive 45 remix of Eddie Money's "Two Tickets to Paradise" from a master tape source! |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 24 October 2007 at 1:08pm
That would kick butt! |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 24 October 2007 at 1:17pm
Yes, sir! And perhaps this might be our last hope to eventually obtain that long lost 45 version of "Wanna Be Startin' Something" for Brian! |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 24 October 2007 at 1:23pm
Yep, and let's not forget Babs' "The Way We Were," also on Columbia. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 24 October 2007 at 2:18pm
| Will Christmas come early for everyone? |
Posted By: torcan
Date Posted: 24 October 2007 at 3:47pm
Checked out a few on e-bay and noticed the Cyndi Lauper one has a different sleeve. The others all appear to be the same as the original 45 though. |