Daydream Believer- Monkees
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Category: Top 40 Music On Compact Disc
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URL: https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7312
Printed Date: 05 May 2025 at 1:50am
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Topic: Daydream Believer- Monkees
Posted By: JL328
Subject: Daydream Believer- Monkees
Date Posted: 06 March 2013 at 9:20am
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Is there really no thread on this song?
The 45 Version has a :07 spoken introduction. It was a dialog between Davy Jones and somebody concerning which take they were on. There was a short joke thrown in there as well. I'm trying to figure out the time difference between the original 45/LP Version and the CD Versions. According to the database, the 45/LP Version ran about 2:56 with the :07 introduction. The CD Versions run about 2:56 without the introduction and run about 3:05 with the introduction. So, does anybody know what the time difference is? Was the CD version without the introduction slowed down to match the 2:56 run time of the original 45/LP version with the introduction? I realize that this question can easily be answered by comparing the CD Version with the 45 or LP, but I don't own either of the original sources. |
Replies:
Posted By: JL328
Date Posted: 07 March 2013 at 5:51am
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I found a video of the 45 on YouTube and I think have answered my own
question.... The 45 (and, I presume the LP as well) fades earlier than the versions appearing on CD. The CD versions (at least the ones appearing on the Monkees' Greatest Hits and the Time Life Classic Rock series) go on for about 5 to 6 seconds after the 45 stops. So, should the CD versions with the :07 introduction have a notation stating that they contain the 45 (and LP?) version but longer? Or am I missing something? |
Posted By: Tim Lyman
Date Posted: 16 March 2013 at 1:01am
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Hi JL. The version of "Daydream Believer" with a longer fade is a remix that was done by Bill Inglot back in the '80s (not to be confused with the version with re-recorded drums, which hasn't appeared on CD.)
Looking at the database, it looks like the early CD appearances of this song used Inglot's remix, while later CDs (from roughly the mid-'90s on) use the original stereo or mono mixes, either with or without the spoken introduction. |
Posted By: NightAire
Date Posted: 23 November 2015 at 11:41am
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Is the Bill Inglot remix the version that hit the charts (yes, really) in 1986?
My jaw dropped to see it pop up on November 1st, 1986's chart at #90. It spent the next two weeks at #79, then back to #89, and by November 29th it has disappeared. Does anybody know if #1 there was actually a promo serviced to radio in 1986 and #2 if it was the original mix or the remix that radio stations played at the time? EDIT: the 1986 label says "additional production and mixing by Michael Lloyd for Mike Curb Productions." http://www.45cat.com/record/as19532 - See it here. ------------- Gene Savage http://www.BlackLightRadio.com - http://www.BlackLightRadio.com http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage - http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage Tulsa, Oklahoma USA |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 23 November 2015 at 12:16pm
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Gene - From memory...
Arista released the Then And Now 2-LP greatest hits set in 1986, which included a newly-recorded called "That But Then This Is Now" (produced by Michael Lloyd, and originally recorded in 1985 by the Mosquitos). Arista released the new song as a 45, and it did respectably. Arista turned to "Daydream Believer" as a follow-up single, but let Michael Lloyd remix it to fit in with the 1986 bombastic-drum-sound stuff on the charts. Radio largely ignored it. The 1986 "Daydream Believer" remix that hit the charts was NOT subtle; it was a drastic overhaul that brought the (rerecorded?) drums WAY out in front. You'd know it if you heard it, and you'd scratch your head afterward wondering why it even exists. The new remix was released on a 45 on Arista, and I think there would have been a promo 45 as well (I can't confirm). I have the track on an Arista promo-only multi-artist LP (can't recall the title offhand). The Bill Inglot remix is faithful to the original mix, and is extremely tasteful in comparison. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: Bill Cahill
Date Posted: 23 November 2015 at 2:00pm
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Radio was served a promo copy with the updated Michael
Lloyd version. The Bill Inglot remix turned off the microphone track during the piano intro and during the instrumental break. On the original stereo mix you can hear Davy breathing, clearing his voice, etc. Plus there are some minor mix differences compared to the original stereo mix. |
Posted By: NightAire
Date Posted: 23 November 2015 at 9:57pm
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I'm wondering if it is https://youtu.be/nU615FaODCg - this mix as the drums sound all kinds of wrong.
A friend an Monkees fan says this remix was on the "Then / Now" LP / CD released that was mentioned by CFTP. The database, however, seems to suggest it had the Inglot mix. Can anybody confirm if the "Then / Now" version is the Inglot or the Lloyd mix? ------------- Gene Savage http://www.BlackLightRadio.com - http://www.BlackLightRadio.com http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage - http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage Tulsa, Oklahoma USA |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 23 November 2015 at 11:22pm
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This one specifically says 1986 remix, and the drums are noticeably
different: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vDSzaJECFxc ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: Bill Cahill
Date Posted: 24 November 2015 at 5:05am
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The title track (and only new recording on the CD)
"That Was Then, This is Now" was first issued as "The Monkees" but later changed to "Mickey Dolenz and Peter Tork (of the Monkees). I believe this change was made because Davy complained that Arista didn't have the right to issue that song as "the Monkees". But the song did well enough to warrant a follow up. Without another "new" song on that CD, Arista chose to create a Michael Lloyd remix of "Daydream Believer" with updated drums and other instruments, hoping to get some CHR play (as they did with "That Was Then..") but apparently it didn't do well enough to warrant re- issuing the CD with the Michael Lloyd remix. So to this day, I've only found the Michael Lloyd version on that 1986 Arista 45. |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 24 November 2015 at 5:45am
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As to the version on the "Then & Now" CD, both my copy of the CD (which
also features the Inglot mix) and Bill Cahill's post above 100% jives with my own 1986 recollections. And Gene, since you seem less than 100% sure as to where the versions you're locating on the 'Net are coming from exactly, I'm shooting you out both my "Then & Now" CD and 1986 my promo 45 version for "Daydream Beleiever", to end your guesswork once and for all. |
Posted By: Glenpwood
Date Posted: 24 November 2015 at 7:45am
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I believe all CD copies of Then And Now have the Inglot
mix. The dreaded drum mix is known to exist on repressings of the vinyl and cassette. (This did make it to 8 Track via Columbia House but I'll let the really obsessed track that down and see whats on it). The easiest way to track them down is if you run across a sealed or in shrink copy of the LP, look at the hype sticker. The Inglot version is on the copies with the MTV logo highlighting only the three new Monkees songs Micky & Peter recorded for it. The drum mix version has a hype sticker highlighting Daydream Believer being on the album and no MTV logo. Why the CD never got changed I'm unsure but whenever this topic comes up in Monkees threads online no one has yet to come up with a copy. |
Posted By: NightAire
Date Posted: 24 November 2015 at 11:52pm
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Thanks again, Jim, for helping me separate fact from speculation; it's clear the video I posted DOES use the '86 remix.
I have a friend, a Monkees fanatic, who swears up and down his CD copy of "Then / Now" has the '86 "big drums" remix on it... I'm trying to get access to his CD so I can determine if there actually could be a CD copy of this mix out there (and I'll get everything I can off the label regarding the pressing, serial number, etc. if it turns out to be true!)or if he's just mis-remembering (which I know is most likely). ------------- Gene Savage http://www.BlackLightRadio.com - http://www.BlackLightRadio.com http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage - http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage Tulsa, Oklahoma USA |
Posted By: TomDiehl1
Date Posted: 16 January 2017 at 12:51am
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Bill Inglot says they prepared a version
of the album with the drums remix for a Columbia record club CD release, but does not know if they ever actually issued it. Has anybody got the CD as a Columbia House / record club issue to report what version is on there? ------------- Live in stereo. |
Posted By: JL328
Date Posted: 11 March 2017 at 5:27am
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Never noticed this before but the Rhino digital 45 of "Daydream Believer" is
not actually the 45 version, is it? Rhino's got it in stereo. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 11 March 2017 at 6:30am
You're right. But its B-side, "I'm Goin' Down," is mono and is the only place to get the B-side in its 45 version. It wasn't on the deluxe editions of the albums issued a few years back. https://us.7digital.com/artist/the-monkees/release/daydream-believer-goin-down-digital-45-528761?f=20%2C19%2C12%2C16%2C17%2C9%2C2 - https://us.7digital.com/artist/the-monkees/release/daydream- believer-goin-down-digital-45-528761?f=20%2C19%2C12%2C16%2C1 7%2C9%2C2 |
JL328 wrote:Posted By: vinyljay69
Date Posted: 28 March 2017 at 6:37pm
I have a CD version of the CRC edition, but it features the same mix as on the original LP. My reissue LP features the '86 single remix.
With all due respect to Bill, there were three new recordings on the album - "That Was Then, This Is Now", "Anytime, Anyplace, Anywhere", and a cover of "Kicks". My guess is Arista didn't see hit potential in the latter two.
The mono single version of "Goin' Down" is now available on "The Monkees 50" compilation from last year. |
Posted By: PopArchivist
Date Posted: 11 October 2020 at 7:56pm
Ron, I take it the 45 released in 1986 never made it to CD, correct? Pat's database makes no differential between the 1986 release and any other release. I would think since it was a big #1 hit that even a remix like that would be included somewhere on CD, no? https://www.discogs.com/The-Monkees-Daydream-Believer/master/510228 - https://www.discogs.com/The-Monkees-Daydream-Believer/master /510228 ------------- Favorite two expressions to live by on this board: "You can't download vinyl" and "Not everything is available on CD." |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 11 October 2020 at 9:01pm
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Rich - I haven't found it on CD at all. I think that all parties involved with this remix would like it to quietly fade into oblivion! ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 12 October 2020 at 2:41am
Just FYI, that "somebody" was producer Chip Douglas. For those curious about the 1986 remix, here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTdbld0rSuQ - Daydream Believer 1986 remix |
Posted By: thecdguy
Date Posted: 12 October 2020 at 5:32am
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The 1986 Remix of "Daydream Believer" is on the "Classic Album Collection" box set on the Bonus Disc.
The 2018 compilation An Introduction To The Monkees, Vol. 2 has a version of "Goin' Down" labelled as "Single Version", but there's no indication in the liner notes as to it being mono or stereo. I found the box set at an FYE store and the Vol. 2 compilation at a Barnes & Nobles store. ------------- Dan In Philly |
Posted By: PopArchivist
Date Posted: 12 October 2020 at 11:26am
Thanks. Can scratch that one off my need list. ------------- Favorite two expressions to live by on this board: "You can't download vinyl" and "Not everything is available on CD." |
Posted By: thecdguy
Date Posted: 21 May 2021 at 5:07am
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Looking through some of my CD's this morning and came across my copy of Then & Now and I noticed Production Credits are listed on the back
inlay of the disc as well as the opposite side of the front inlay/liner notes. Chip Douglas is given sole production credit for "Daydream Believer". Michael Lloyd is only given credit for the three new songs on the disc, which I guess gives more credit to the assumption that the 1986 Remix of "Daydream Believer" never made it to any copies of the Then & Now CD. It was mentioned that the remix was on later pressings of the Vinyl LP and Cassette. I'll venture a guess that CD's still weren't outselling LP's and Tapes in 1986, which may explain why Arista Records didn't seem too concerned with making sure the remix was on CD pressings of the album. ------------- Dan In Philly |
Posted By: LunarLaugh
Date Posted: 26 May 2021 at 6:34pm
The CD version contained more tracks than either the LP or cassette versions, so I think it may have been a case of them updating the shorter album master and not updating the longer album master. ------------- https://thelunarlaugh.bandcamp.com/ - Listen to The Lunar Laugh! |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 23 November 2024 at 12:01am
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BIIIIG hit from 1967.
Mono 45 (and mono LP?) version (printed 2:57, actual 2:56) All the versions released in 1967 had the spoken intro. I think the 45 and the mono LP of The Birds, The Bees & The Monkees may have used the same mix, but I can't confirm. This first appeared on CD on Flashback's cheapie 10-song Monkees collection Daydream Believer And Other Hits (1998). Flashback's collections are associated with Rhino, so no matter how cheap the packaging looks, the sound will be good. It later appeared on Compass Productions/Rhino Custom Products' various artists compilation Summer Of Love The Sound Of 1967 (2007). Even later, it appeared on Rhino Handmade's The Birds, The Bees & The Monkees (2010), which is currently selling for about $200 on Discogs. Ouch. Good luck with that. I only have one file of these, and therefore can't do any comparisons among these releases. Stereo LP version (actual 2:56) After the spoken intro, during the opening of the song, the bass is panned fully to the left, and the keyboard and drums are panned fully to the right. This first appeared on CD on Priority's Best Of 60s Mellow (1987), where it sounds pretty terrible. Narrowed soundstage, among other issues. Let's just pretend this CD version of the song doesn't exist. As best as I can tell, the first (proper) CD release of the stereo LP version was on Rhino's reissue of The Birds, The Bees & The Monkees (1994). The same analog transfer is used on:
Non-hit 1986 stereo remix by Michael Lloyd (printed 2:58, actual 2:58) This version was released as the follow-up single to 1986's "That Was Then, This Is Now". It's a deliberately-1986 remix, intended to sound like 1986, with big drums and everything. It's not subtle. And it wasn't a hit. The Monkees community is not proud of this one. As far as I know, it's available on CD only on Rhino's 10-CD Monkees Classic Album Collection (2016), as the last track on the "Bonus Disc". Non-hit 1986 stereo remix by Bill Inglot (actual 3:05) In very stark contrast with the Michael Lloyd remix, Bill Inglot remixed the song quite tastefully, in the style of the 1967 original. It runs about 9 seconds longer than the 1967 mixes. After the spoken intro, during the opening of the song, the bass is panned fully to the left, the keyboard is roughly centered (not panned hard right, like the 1967 mix), and the drums are panned fully to the right. The remix turned up first on Arista's Monkees collection Then & Now...The Best Of (1986). The same analog transfer is used on:
Compared to the 1986 Bill Inglot remix, this 1991 remix has harder panning on the spoken intro (the "7A" is entirely in the right channel, compared with slightly right on the 1986 mix). After the spoken intro, during the opening of the song, the bass is panned fully to the left, the keyboard is panned hard right (like the 1967 mix), and the drums are panned fully to the right. Plus, the tail of the fade is about 10 beats longer than the 1986 remix, making this the longest mix of all of them. It's found only on Rhino's multi-CD Monkees set Listen To The Band (1991). My recommendations For the mono 45 (and possibly mono LP?) version, I got a file from Rhino Handmade's The Birds The Bees And The Monkees deluxe edition (2010). I realize that this isn't practical advice, since this set is so hard to come by. Just grab one of the other two. For the stereo LP version, go with Rhino's Monkees Greatest Hits (1995). It's a well-chosen package with nice sound. If you must own the non-hit 1986 stereo remix by Michael Lloyd, go with Rhino's 10-CD Monkees Classic Album Collection (2016). For the non-hit 1986 stereo remix by Bill Inglot, go with Arista's Monkees collection Then & Now...The Best Of (1986) if you're a Monkees fan, or Rhino's Billboard Top R&R Hits 1967 (1989 original release only) if you'd prefer a compilation. Both sound great. For the non-hit 1991 stereo remix by Bill Inglot, you'll need Rhino's multi-CD Monkees set Listen To The Band (1991). ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: music4life75
Date Posted: 30 November 2024 at 10:40pm
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I found out that the 1986 remix was made because Davy Jones said
backstage at the 1986 MTV VMA’s that he threatened a lawsuit if Arista released “Anytime, Anywhere, Anyplace” as the follow-up to “That Was Then, This Is Now.” |
Posted By: LunarLaugh
Date Posted: 05 December 2024 at 7:02pm
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Lots of reported bad blood from Davy over the three new tracks that Peter and Micky cut without his involvement. He stopped the label from
crediting those tracks to 'THE MONKEES' despite all the existing legitimately credited Monkees tracks featuring only one of the four members with session musicians. ------------- https://thelunarlaugh.bandcamp.com/ - Listen to The Lunar Laugh! |
Posted By: mjb50
Date Posted: 06 December 2024 at 1:00pm
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Hmm, but when they were in charge of their careers, the choice of which songs got to be on the LP, and who did what in each recording, surely was supposed to be a group decision, something they all signed off on. Davy surely didn't feel he was free to record something on his own and be like "OK guys, this is going on the album too". But it sounds like that's what they felt comfortable doing to him?
There's probably more to the story. I bet if you asked each of them what exactly their arrangement was as a band/business, you would have gotten four different answers. |