Barbra Streisand "Promises"
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Topic: Barbra Streisand "Promises"
Posted By: Michaeldila
Subject: Barbra Streisand "Promises"
Date Posted: 29 July 2014 at 4:43pm
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hi. can anyone tell me if the single version of this song can be re-created
using the lp version? thanks. |
Replies:
Posted By: MMathews
Date Posted: 30 July 2014 at 11:06pm
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Well, I was going to report that as far I recalled, the
45 was merely an early fade of the LP version. But I bought this LP years later, so I never actually compared the two before. It turns out you cannot create the single from the album, they are completely different mixes. A few things i noticed: the drums on the album have a lot of reverb, the 45 drums do not. Her vocals are louder on the album, lower on the 45. In the intro the LP has a loud synth playing with the horn, but that's almost mixed out of the 45. Too many other minor differences to list. I've never noticed this song on any of her comps, so I guess the best source for this 45 would be a mint 45. Side note; FWIW, I think the LP version has a "fuller" sound, and the kick drum is louder so you feel the beat more. So I think the LP mix would have sounded better on radio. I'm not sure what they were going for in the 45 mix. Nonetheless, the 45 is what I remember hearing, for this song's short radio run. MM MM |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 31 July 2014 at 11:20am
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Very interesting, Mark. This WOULD be a song (single mix) I'd ask my Sony contact to release in some form - but Barbra Streisand is one of the 2 or 3 "off-limits" artists that we can't even request releases for (Neil Diamond being another.)
So, Mark, since this mix is better in your opinion, what would I have to do to the album version to be parallel to the single version - in other words, what edits or what early fade would I have to do to the album version to have the structure and length of the single (albeit without that mix)? |
Posted By: Michaeldila
Date Posted: 31 July 2014 at 6:24pm
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hi mark, thanks for the info. edison basically asked the question i wanted to
know about making a "sort-of" single edit using the lp version. also there is an "extended" version on youtube that runs 5:55 (which is what it also says on the photo of the 12" vinyl in said video). it sounds like it is slightly sped up and is missing some instruments (a lot dryer than the regular lp version)...i am guessing the 45 mix could be an edit of this version? |
Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 01 August 2014 at 7:10am
Why is that? Do these artists so tightly control their catalog that the label has no say whatsoever on releases? |
EdisonLite wrote:Posted By: Glenpwood
Date Posted: 01 August 2014 at 9:02am
Babs has it in her contract that nothing gets released from her catalog without her consent. This is why the original hit 45 mix of The Way We Were remains unreleased to this day. Billy Joel and Neil Diamond are the other two Sony acts that have been problematic for us collectors as well..... I never understood why they buried her vocal in the mix. Takes all the life out of it. Had they just issued the LP Mix instead I'm willing to bet it would've charted much stronger. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 01 August 2014 at 11:30am
| Glen answered it. Barry Manilow and Bruce Springsteen are two other ones that have a say in their old releases. With Barbra, Neil & Bruce, part of it has to do with the fact that they are current artists on Sony. With Barry and Billy, they're not - but all of them are such big superstars that at some point (I presume) they had their contracts modified so they have a say on what older catalog gets released. |
Posted By: MMathews
Date Posted: 02 August 2014 at 2:00am
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Thanks for the heads-up on the 12" being on youtube. I
used to own it, and I now was wondering what mix was on the 12". It is indeed the 45 mix. The 45 is sped up also and yes, has that dry, sparse sound to it. So yes, the 45 can be edited from the 12" single. From the LP version, there would be no edits, you just need to fade it early. Start your fade around 3:42 and end it around 3:54. Remember the 45 is sped up, so it runs 3:52. Note tho, if one is making the 45 from the 12" single, there would be an edit needed because the 12" version loops a chorus twice (a very lazy way to extend it I think). MM |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 02 August 2014 at 6:53am
Gordon, Neil signed with Universal's Capitol label back in January. The deal brought his entire Bang, Uni/MCA and Columbia/Sony catalogs together under one roof (or dome) for the first time. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 02 August 2014 at 9:26am
| So are you saying that since January, Universal owns all of Neil's Columbia material, and NOT Columbia? In this case, Sony wouldn't be able to put Neil's stuff at all. And this is a shame because Universal is even less likely to care about putting out his single mixes (like "I Dreamed a Dream" and "On the Way to the Sky") which have never seen the light of day on CD. |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 02 August 2014 at 12:40pm
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In a nutshell, Neil Diamond's Columbia catalog is no longer available through Columbia/Sony.
Just to clarify the ownership of Neil Diamond's master recordings, Neil does not presently own his Uni/MCA masters (Universal does), but he does own all of his Bang/Columbia/Sony masters released on Columbia until January, 2014. His The Jazz Singer LP and its associated singles - which were originally issued on Capitol - all state "(P)1980 Neil Diamond" on the labels, so he's always owned the masters to those, too. After a few years, Neil took those Capitol tracks over to Columbia. Just as Paul McCartney's back catalog has followed his label-hopping from Capitol to Columbia, back to Capitol and his present stop at Concord/Hear Music, Neil's back catalog - including the Columbia/Sony masters - now resides with Capitol. Not that that's necessarily a huge change, since Capitol's chairman and CEO Steve Barnett previously worked with Neil at Columbia up until late 2012 (and was one of the chief architects in luring Neil over to the label.) Neil's Capitol All-Time Greatest Hits CD, released less than a month ago, includes material from all three phases of his catalog. Here's a link to the full Billboard story from last January: http://www.billboard.com/biz/articles/news/record-labels/587 6964/neil-diamond-signs-with-capitol-records-exclusive |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 02 August 2014 at 1:17pm
| Thanks for the info. Interesting. BTW, I tried the link but it doesn't work. |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 02 August 2014 at 1:26pm
| Sorry about that, Gordon. There's a space between the numbers in the link I posted which I can't seem to eliminate. Either copy it and paste it, then remove the space between the "587" and "6964", or do what I originally did: Google "Neil Diamond signs with Capitol" |
Posted By: Michaeldila
Date Posted: 07 August 2014 at 6:20pm
| thanks for the info, MM. |
Posted By: Michaeldila
Date Posted: 21 January 2020 at 4:42pm
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the b-side of "promises" has an edit of "make it like memory" that's
almost a full four minutes shorter than the version on the 'guilty' album....does anyone know the edit points of this "short version"...? thanks |
Posted By: Loveland
Date Posted: 25 January 2020 at 11:17am
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Pretty much every artist that has made it
eventually obtains complete artistic freedom, i.e. final say on everything; i.e. Madge, MJ, Prince, Kylie... (which is the reason why we'll probably never hear her first deConstruction sessions with Saint Etienne and Rapino Brothers). Once in a blue moon, you get debut artists with total creative control from the gate, such as P!nk. While she might like dance music, she loathes mixes of her tracks. She put the kibosh on club mixes starting with Just Like A Pill and Feel Good Time. Starting with her third album, Arista UK commissioning all club mixes of her songs, which in turn were then promoted by Arista in the US. Clearly a loophole in her contract. |