the buoys "timothy"
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Topic: the buoys "timothy"
Posted By: edtop40
Subject: the buoys "timothy"
Date Posted: 24 April 2006 at 6:53pm
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what is the word or words that are censored in this song........i listened to the 45 versus the version from "have a nice day" and they are the same as far as the breaks go...the only difference is the 45 is in mono while the cd version is in stereo..........as we all know that does, at times, make a noticable difference in sound...........edtop40 ------------- edtop40 |
Replies:
Posted By: AndrewChouffi
Date Posted: 24 April 2006 at 7:05pm
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The censored version is pretty rare...
The line "...stomach was full as it could be..." was replaced with something like "both us us fine as we could be". Please note: I really don't remember the actual replaced line because I never owned the censored promo and am only going by hazy memory. Andy |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 25 April 2006 at 4:25pm
| Impressive memory, Andrew. It was "both of us fine as we could be" as the replacement line. In the "Hall Of Shame" of bad edits - the tempo of the song isn't maintained during the changed line. As if someone hit "pitch control" to 40RPM for 7 seconds, then returned it to 45RPM. Actually hurts the ears! This promo 45 says "Revised Lyric" on the label. There was still another "Timothy" special version promo 45 - Timothy ("Beeped" version.) This had a tone, like on "A Boy Named Sue" placed over "Hungry as hell..." becomes "Hungry as BEEP, no food to eat." This version leaves in the original "stomach was full" line, however. |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 26 April 2006 at 11:04am
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why did they edit such an innocuous lyric.......sounds rather tame to be edited....... ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: Paul Haney
Date Posted: 26 April 2006 at 11:20am
| Well, considering the song alluded to cannibalism, I can see where the "stomach was full" line might have offended someone. In fact, some stations refused to play even the edited versions because of the subject matter. |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 26 April 2006 at 12:45pm
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i did not know that..... ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: jimct
Date Posted: 26 April 2006 at 5:25pm
| "Timothy" was first released back in January of 1970. WILK, Wilkes-Barre, PA,(the group's hometown) charted Timothy in Feb. of '70. It didn't end up peaking nationally 'til late April/early May of '71! The 45 had been out FOREVER. My info on this: Struggling NY-based songwriter Rupert Holmes (yes, the same guy) had a buddy who was an engineer at Scepter. He got them to agree to put out one 45 by his buddy, with no promotion, as a favor. Rupert decided to try to write a song that would "get banned." The cooking show "The Galloping Gourmet" was on during the write, getting the food angle in his head. He came up with "cannibalism during a mining disaster - that'll get banned!" A few stations did play it - kids figured out its meaning, and called stations non-stop to request it. For awhile, Scepter promoters didn't even realize "Timothy" was one of its own records! - and when the "cannibalism" angle was turning off WABC and some other big stations, Scepter then tried to say Timothy was a mule, not a person....it wasn't true, and it didn't work. WABC & other big-market stations never did play it. |
Posted By: Bill Cahill
Date Posted: 29 April 2006 at 3:38pm
| Yeah Jimct is right on both of the "censored" versions. I have both promos. Took me forever to find them. Not many copies out there. |
Posted By: Bill Cahill
Date Posted: 22 June 2011 at 7:53pm
| The stereo version that's on all CDs should be noted as LP mix. The mono 45 (including the bleeped and revised DJ versions) is a different mix, which drops out the strings completely right after the line "God what did we do", I assume to make the horns punch better. (Strings immediately come back up so they are only missing for a second) So the 45 misses the "wind up" of the strings that you hear on the stereo version right before the horns hit. Same kind of thing happens near the end of the song too at one point. Minor thing but it is different. |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 22 June 2011 at 9:52pm
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So now we learn that they ate some of the orchestra members, too? What cannibals!! :) Great catch, Bill.
Instead of concocting that lame mule story, Scepter should've ridden on the coattails of the hit film 2001: A Space Odyssey by claiming that the line was actually "hungry as HAL..." :) |
Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 10:22am
ISTR WKBW playing the song well before it became a hit, though I can't say for sure it was that early. Was the 1970 release also on Scepter? |
jimct wrote:Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 2:14pm
"Timothy" retained its original 1970 catalog number - Scepter 12275 - all the way through its very long incubation period and eventual chart run. By comparison, Dionne Warwick's "I'll Never Fall In Love Again", only two singles further up in the label's catalog at # 12273, charted in late December, 1969.
Wow, Jim, I didn't ever remember hearing a speed variation on that punch-in, so I dug out my http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh240/YahShure/Buoys-TimothyRevisedLyric.jpg - "Revised Lyric" copy for the first time in eons. Lyric revision aside, it's obvious that there's a punch-in there, but only because the tone quality is noticeably thinner, with much weaker bass and percussion presence. However, there is no speed or pitch change during the patch job on my copy. Did Scepter issue a *revision* of the "revised lyric" DJ 45? If the first one was as bad as you described it - and enough radio folks told Scepter the same thing - I can see them having another go at it to get it done right. I'll give them credit for scrambling to bring home a hit under such unusual circumstances. One could almost use a scorecard to keep track of this recording's interesting variations, even for the commercial copies. Scepter utilized several different pressing plants during "Timothy"'s run. I have stock copies on both the older reddish-orange Scepter label and the newer multicolor design. Ditto for The Buoys LP: An orange-labeled copy came with a lyric sheet insert, but a multicolor label issue did not. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 4:05pm
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There must be more than one issue, then, because I've heard Jim's "Revised Lyric" copy, and the pitch change is dreadful. He pretty much nailed it by saying it slows down to "40 RPM for 7 seconds." (OK, it's maybe not that bad, but certainly easy to detect.) If you happen to have a nice clean copy of that "Revised Lyric" 45, I'd love to have a wav. I have dubs of two different copies, and they both have fuzzy groove distortion from styrene that has been played a few too many times. Both also have the noticeable pitch change. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 7:55pm
Oh... um... let me put my eBay Price Gouger hat on for this "rare," "highly collectible," "one-of-a-kind"... :) Just to be certain, I pasted the revised 7-second segment into one channel of a dub of the uncensored 45, and the pitches did match. Does the "40 RPM" revised lyric DJ 45 also carry the SDR-12275-B catalog number? "Timothy" never was a sonic wonder as a 45; even a mint copy will sound a bit reminiscent of a styrene record gone bad. Their follow-up 45, "Give Up Your Guns," sounded fine and was in stereo, to boot. |
Posted By: Bill Cahill
Date Posted: 23 June 2011 at 8:15pm
| I have three copies of the revised lyric version, one is near mint. They all have the fuzzy groove distortion. The groove distortion is most likely due to the "revised" portion of the song being louder. That's the only part of the record that has the groove distortion, I think they just pressed it badly, making it easy to wear. The best way to copy the song for digital archiving is record it in stereo and then choose the channel with least distortion. I've never heard it without the pitch change, it happens in the horns a couple of seconds before the vocals come back, an odd place to make an edit. As far as the sonic quality, the revised lyric version is noticably worse than the other pressings. |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 01 July 2011 at 1:17pm
("Accepting the Top 40 Music On Compact Disc Chat Board's 'Tin Ears' Award is... Yah Shure.") I'd like to thank Aaron for sending me a copy of his Revised Lyric dub, which demonstrated that I didn't know what I was talking about. There was only one Revised Lyric DJ 45 after all, and my copy had the same slowdown zone. As my hearing loss continues its inevitable march to the sea, the ability to detect pitch changes under certain conditions seems to be following right in its footsteps. Hearing the Revised Lyric dub on a portable radio via a small AM transmitter made the slowdown immediately apparent. Yet hearing it under headphones - my normal editing mode - made the glitch much harder to detect. I know Jim used the "40 RPM" reference strictly to illustrate a point, but I should add that the slowdown doesn't actually come anywhere near 40 RPM, and it probably isn't even as slow as 44 RPM. I slowed the "my stomach was full..." line in the uncensored version down to the rough equivalent of 40 RPM and no one, myself included, could possibly miss such an obvious speed change. I was expecting to hear a similarly drastic change in the speed on the revised promo, and while it is pretty awful, it's nowhere near 40 RPM-drastic. On the other hand, there was probably a very good reason why I filed away my copy of the Revised Lyric DJ 45 in the '70s and never listened to it again until now. :) |
Posted By: Smokin' TomGary
Date Posted: 06 July 2011 at 6:39pm
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I believe Jim's version was taken from my promo 45. The "Revised Lyric" white label promo 45 has label number SDR-12275-B (61526). The deadwax number is 61526-1A. It does have a noticeable tonal quality change and horrible pitch change at the edit point. The flip side is SDR-12275-A (61315), deadwax number is 61315-1B and times out at 2:48
The "Edited, Bleeped Out" white label promo 45 has label number SDJ-12275-B (61375). The deadwax number is 61375-1A. The flip side is SDJ-12275-A, deadwax number is 61315-1A and times out at 2:48 I hope this helps. |
Posted By: KentT
Date Posted: 16 July 2011 at 7:54am
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You might say that this record was truly a cannibal.
Scepter 45 singles were among the very worst for playing life. Many of them were fuzzy and distorted when brand new and were severely worn out in 10 plays. ------------- I turn up the good and turn down the bad! |
Posted By: Indy500
Date Posted: 22 January 2017 at 4:55pm
| Any imports with one of the 45 versions after 5 years? |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 23 January 2017 at 12:28pm
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Ace released this song in mono on a various artist CD over ten years ago, however it is not the correct single mix. The way it was described to me was they simply used only one of the channels of the stereo mix (the right channel). This means the horns are missing from that version (which you could label as a neither the LP or 45 mix). Missed opportunity once again. ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 23 January 2017 at 12:58pm
| Best option is a clean vinyl dub. |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 23 January 2017 at 1:14pm
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Here's a question. Could the stereo be folded down to
mono and edit in the portion from the 45 that's missing the strings? |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 23 January 2017 at 1:36pm
| Scratch that. I'll stick with my vinyl dub. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 23 January 2017 at 2:20pm
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Looks like, according to Bill, the mono is a dedicated mix. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: The Hits Man
Date Posted: 23 January 2017 at 3:29pm
This is a cue for someone "(maybe Eric Records) to create a legitimate stereo mix of the single version. ------------- |
Posted By: Indy500
Date Posted: 23 January 2017 at 5:54pm
| There are several youtube videos of the song but I don't have the bandwidth right now to listen to them to see which versions they are. Might be something interesting. |
Posted By: sriv94
Date Posted: 23 January 2017 at 6:54pm
I gues another question would be if anyone has tried to pitch up the slowdown to try to make it a little more seamless. I hadn't known the backstory of the record until now, and now I see where the slowdown could be construed as, well, jarring. ------------- Doug --------------- All of the good signatures have been taken. |
Posted By: radiofan16
Date Posted: 24 January 2017 at 12:05am
Every version is the LP version. If somebody wants to upload the revised version, go ahead. |
Posted By: MMathews
Date Posted: 24 January 2017 at 5:59pm
Very unlikely that the multi-track still exists today, or that the current rights owner has it. And of course there's a big cost factor. MM |
Posted By: NightAire
Date Posted: 28 June 2022 at 1:14am
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Any votes for the best version of this on CD? I'd prefer stereo but if there's a mono copy that sounds better I'd go with it.
I have a stereo version from the "Suoerhits Vol. 16: The Early '70s" and while it's not awful, it's a bit harsh. Based on previous comments I'm wondering if this is as good as it gets. I'm guessing the master tape isn't any sonic wonder. ------------- Gene Savage http://www.BlackLightRadio.com - http://www.BlackLightRadio.com http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage - http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage Tulsa, Oklahoma USA |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 28 June 2022 at 7:27am
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Gene,
The stereo on the Super Hits Of The Seventies series sounds nice. The best mono is a nice clean 45 dub since it's a dedicated mix. ------------- John Gallagher Erie, PA https://www.johngallagher.com" rel="nofollow - John Gallagher Wedding & Special Event Entertainment / Snapblast Photo Booth |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 28 June 2022 at 7:52am
To my ears, it sounds best on Rhino's Have A Nice Day Vol. 6 (1990). The same analog transfer is used on:
------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: NightAire
Date Posted: 28 June 2022 at 3:06pm
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Sounds like I've got the best option out there. Thanks, John and Ron! ------------- Gene Savage http://www.BlackLightRadio.com - http://www.BlackLightRadio.com http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage - http://www.facebook.com/TulsaSavage Tulsa, Oklahoma USA |
Posted By: garye
Date Posted: 28 June 2022 at 9:11pm
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The "Have A Nice Day" volume 6 has the revised lyric but it
pitched up a bit to match the rest of the song. I used to have one of the promos from years back. And WCOL in Columbus played the revised version and man did it stick out like a sore thumb when listening! And it still hit #1 on WCOL! Yeah one of he lost hits so to speak. |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 29 June 2022 at 6:47am
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Gary - The version on Have A Nice Day is the LP version, which includes the original lyrics. All the versions on CD are the LP version. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: garye
Date Posted: 29 June 2022 at 2:11pm
I just listened again. My copy has the "both of us fine as we could be" lyric. I can send it along if you'd like. |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 29 June 2022 at 3:13pm
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Are you sure?
The lyrics in question are at 1:54. The stereo LP version (which is on my copy of Have A Nice Day) and the mono commercial 45 version (unavailable on CD) both have "stomach was full as it could be". The mono promo 45 version (also unavailable on CD) has "woke up as fine as we could be". Unless there's another pressing of Have A Nice Day Vol. 6 that I haven't encountered (which is kinda doubtful considering how long I've been working with the Rhino compilations), I think your file may be mislabeled. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: garye
Date Posted: 30 June 2022 at 5:55am
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the weird thing is, checking it says "Have A Nice Day Vol
6" when the playlist info comes up. So assumed that is where it is from. I ripped song from CD, which I no longer have. The only other place it could have come from is the Time Life Series. Wherever it came from, was surprised to hear a pitch corrected version of the song, where the verse edit fits right in. Have you heard of any compilation that would have the revised lyric? |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 30 June 2022 at 7:05am
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The revised "woke up as fine as we could be" lyric, speed-corrected or otherwise, has never been released on a commercially available CD. I also highly doubt that it's been released on a promo CD of any type.
The Time-Life releases also have the LP version with the original lyrics. I don't know where your file would have originated, but it's almost certainly not from a CD. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: garye
Date Posted: 30 June 2022 at 3:48pm
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So I gotta wonder where it came from.
If it's a needle drop, one of the cleanest I ever heard. It's really clean stereo. I just listened again, and right where the revised lyric is, it drops to mono for 2 seconds, then back to full stereo. Whoever did this deserves applause for his work. Funny what you run across on da internet! |