Cheap Trick - The Flame
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Topic: Cheap Trick - The Flame
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Subject: Cheap Trick - The Flame
Date Posted: 11 August 2020 at 9:23pm
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It was unavoidable in the summer of 1988. At the time, I thought that even slightly anemic Cheap Trick was better than no Cheap Trick, and I was happy that the band had a hit. In recent years, I've warmed up to it. I had a friend in a cover band that used to play this song at pretty much every show, because people go absolutely bonkers for it. Well, cool.
LP version The LP version runs 5:37, and runs at about 97.0 or 97.1 BPM throughout with no drift in tempo. Drummer Bun E. Carlos is playing live to a click track. The LP version first appeared (commercially) on Lap Of Luxury (1988), where it sounds just fine in typical late '80s style. Huge dynamic range, no noise reduction (no loss of high end on the fade), and a slightly harsh EQ that was typical of the mixing style back then. The same analog transfer is used on:
It sounds simple enough, but it's not. I tried to reverse-engineer the "Short Version" from the promo CD single, thinking it was just one or two edits and an early fade, but there's a portion of audio in the 45 that doesn't seem to exist in the LP version. Here are partial editing instructions, using the timings from Lap Of Luxury: Segment 1 Begins between beats, making it difficult to count beats. Extends from 0:00 to 4:11.7 of both LP and 45 versions. Ends on the second snare after the word "you". Remove 78 beats from 4:11.7 to 4:59.9 of the LP version. Segment 2 Begins on a snare hit 10 beats long Ends on a snare hit Extends from 4:11.7 to 4:17.9 of the 45 version I can't find this piece of audio in the LP version. Listen at the fourth beat in this segment, at 4:14.2 in the 45 version, how the tamborine hits way before the snare (this is the snare hit before the downbeat; the next snare after this one falls immediately before the line "whatever you want"). I can't find that tamborine hit anywhere in the LP version. (Seeking a second opinion; I will gladly revise these instructions if someone finds it.) Fooey. Segment 3 Begins on a snare hit, immediately before the line "I'll give to you" 30 beats long Ends on a snare, on the word "you" in the line "and whatever you want" Extends from 4:17.9 to 4:36.4 of the 45 version Extends from 4:59.9 to 5:18.5 of the LP version Fade 19 beats long Starts on a downbeat at end of drum fill Ends on a snare, on the word "you" in the line "and whatever you want" Extends from 4:24.7 to 4:36.4 of the 45 version Extends from 5:06.7 to 5:18.5 of the LP version Your mixdown (if somehow you manage to find segment 2 in the LP version) will run 4:36.4, with edits at 4:11.7 and 4:17.9, and a 19-beat fade from 4:24.7 to 4:36.4. While this will match the "Short Version" on the promo CD single, it's about five seconds shorter than the actual 45. Plus, the promo CD single has that indexing error that cuts off the first 0.2 second of the song. I can't imagine radio stations played the promo CD single on the air in 1988, due to that indexing error. Both the LP ("Long Version") and shorter-than-45 ("Short Version") run at 97.0 or 97.1 BPM throughout, which is the proper speed for the song. The actual 45 (edit and length) exists on plenty of CDs, none of which reproduce the indexing error of the promo CD single. The vinyl 45 also runs at 97.0 or 97.1 BPM throughout (confirmed from a 45 playing on a nice turntable in a YouTube video). There are speed errors galore for the 45 version on CD. The oldest CD I have with the 45 version is Priority's Eighties Greatest Rock Hits Vol. 5 From The Heart (1992). It runs at the right speed and extends out to the full length, but it's mastered too loud and clips a lot. The same analog transfer is used on:
There's a new analog transfer on Rhino's Billboard Top Hits 1988 (1994), which sounds spectacular and runs out to the full length of the 45, but runs about 1.0% too slow (at about 96.1 BPM). The same analog transfer is used on:
What a mess. My recommendations For the LP version, if you must own the song on a single-artist disc, Lap Of Luxury (1988) sounds great, but it's really not a very good album. A much better choice for the LP version is Sony's 2-CD Read The Hits (1994), which sounds about the same as Lap Of Luxury, and is probably my favorite CBS-label compilation ever. Yeah, it's that good. Seriously. For the 45 version, go with Rhino's Billboard Top Hits 1988 (1994) and speed the track up by 1.0%. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Replies:
Posted By: Bellenger1981
Date Posted: 18 August 2020 at 5:42pm
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Good catch, Ron! I always thought that the 45 version
was just an edit of the album version. You are correct about that tambourine hitting before the snare at that time. ------------- Jason Bellenger Byron Center, Michigan, USA |
Posted By: PopArchivist
Date Posted: 18 August 2020 at 7:19pm
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I agree Jason, I always thought it was an early fade of the album version. Ron has too much time on his hands, but the observations are much appreciated. ------------- Favorite two expressions to live by on this board: "You can't download vinyl" and "Not everything is available on CD." |
Posted By: garye
Date Posted: 19 August 2020 at 1:53pm
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My version of "The Flame" comes from "Cheap Trick, The
Epic Archive Volume 3" ties out at 4:40 but fades earlier at the 4:35 mark. is this the actual single dub? |
Posted By: davidclark
Date Posted: 19 August 2020 at 9:03pm
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I am trying to listen for that tambourine hit at 4:14.2 in the 45, but I can not
hear it. Indeed my 59-year-old ears have lost much of their ability to hear high frequencies (sigh...). Perhaps this is why I can not hear it. Can you younger listeners hear it? ------------- dc1 |
Posted By: Bellenger1981
Date Posted: 19 August 2020 at 9:30pm
My copy of "The Flame [Single Version]" from the 2019 Real Gone CD issue of "The Epic Archive, Vol. 3" runs about 4:40, not 4:35. And, yes, it has that tambourine hit before the snare that Ron pointed out, so I believe that it is the actual single dub. ------------- Jason Bellenger Byron Center, Michigan, USA |
garye wrote:Posted By: garye
Date Posted: 20 August 2020 at 10:47am
Thanks for the clarification! Sometimes these days you never know what is what when it comes to these releases! |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 20 August 2020 at 11:08am
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I took Ron's advice and sped up Billboard Top Hits
1988 by 1% and then faded the track from 4:39-4:41. ------------- John Gallagher Erie, PA https://www.johngallagher.com" rel="nofollow - John Gallagher Wedding & Special Event Entertainment / Snapblast Photo Booth |
Posted By: BSharp
Date Posted: 20 August 2020 at 5:33pm
It is (I have that version from the same CD, as well as the original 45). The album version annoys me... in the last chorus before the fade, they flip the first two lines around so he's singing "Whatever You Want, I'll Give It To You" BEFORE "Wherever You Go, I'll Be With You". I love the song in general (even if Cheap Trick doesn't), but for me it's gotta be the single version or nothing. |
Posted By: PopArchivist
Date Posted: 15 January 2021 at 10:47pm
The "short version" on Epic CD Single Promo ESK-1050 ends at 4:36.759 but you said it is missing some seconds Ron. I can't attest to what the 45 has, but based on what Ron says 1988 Billboard runs a few seconds longer and has to be pitched correctly. I would think the CD promo short version in this instance would be the correct version. If you add the seconds back in, it still ends at 4:37, not 4:40-4:41 I'm confused as to why there is a 5 second difference. Sorry if I am not understanding. ------------- Favorite two expressions to live by on this board: "You can't download vinyl" and "Not everything is available on CD." |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 16 January 2021 at 12:07pm
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Here is a 45 playing for reference -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wo1zKGtnfE ------------- John Gallagher Erie, PA https://www.johngallagher.com" rel="nofollow - John Gallagher Wedding & Special Event Entertainment / Snapblast Photo Booth |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 16 January 2021 at 12:21pm
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I just listened to the 45 version on the Epic
Archives which runs 4:36 according to the db, but fades earlier than the 45 I linked to in the post above. ------------- John Gallagher Erie, PA https://www.johngallagher.com" rel="nofollow - John Gallagher Wedding & Special Event Entertainment / Snapblast Photo Booth |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 16 January 2021 at 12:28pm
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Based on what Ron said above, it seems that the LP version and 45 version are different edits of a longer take. There are spots in the LP version where an edit is audible, so that seems plausible. Also, regarding the Billboard disc, not only does the entire song run too slow, but also the first 4-5 seconds run even slower. The song picks up speed at that point, and the pitch seems fairly constant for the remainder. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 16 January 2021 at 12:35pm
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I didn't speed up the first few seconds of the Billboard
disc only the song itself. So what options are there for a 45 version that runs the proper length, proper pitch, and doesn't fade early? ------------- John Gallagher Erie, PA https://www.johngallagher.com" rel="nofollow - John Gallagher Wedding & Special Event Entertainment / Snapblast Photo Booth |
Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 16 January 2021 at 12:43pm
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Now that you mention it, the first few seconds of the
Billboard disc sound like tape drag maybe? ------------- John Gallagher Erie, PA https://www.johngallagher.com" rel="nofollow - John Gallagher Wedding & Special Event Entertainment / Snapblast Photo Booth |
Posted By: PopArchivist
Date Posted: 16 January 2021 at 2:53pm
Based on Aaron's correct file, the song should run 4:43. ------------- Favorite two expressions to live by on this board: "You can't download vinyl" and "Not everything is available on CD." |
Posted By: radiofan16
Date Posted: 22 January 2021 at 3:40am
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And now to give everybody a headache, I'm going to make a correction. :)
The 45 can be edited from the LP, there is no mix difference but a simple out of sequence edit. The sound you hear at 4:14 on the 45 version is not, I repeat *not* a tambourin, it is simply an extra note from the Roland D50 synth that appears throughout the song. This is very obvious if you're listening with headphones, as it's right there in your left channel. After Robin sings "you" the synth plays four notes followed by a fifth note and the down beat. This does appear on the LP version, listen closely at 5:06 seconds and that extra note is right there, it also appears at 5:16. So Segment #2 can be made just take 5:02 to 5:06 and paste it. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 22 January 2021 at 7:03am
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You're right that the sound is a synth and not a tambourine, but I agree with Ron that the segment in question is unique and not found on the LP version. On the 45 version, the synth note comes noticeably early before the drum hit, and I could not find anywhere in the LP version where that occurs. Every other time that passage is played, the synth and drum are played at the same time. Also, segment 5:02 to 5:06 of the LP version has a different drum pattern/fill that does not match with 4:10 to 4:14 of the 45 version. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 22 January 2021 at 8:15am
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Sorry, radiofan16, but I agree with Aaron. The 4:10-4:14 segment of the 45 version is different from the 5:02-5:06 segment of the LP version. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |
Posted By: PopArchivist
Date Posted: 22 January 2021 at 12:07pm
You are absolutely correct in your assessment sir. ------------- Favorite two expressions to live by on this board: "You can't download vinyl" and "Not everything is available on CD." |
Posted By: David Pro
Date Posted: 26 March 2021 at 11:05am
It could be possible that the version of "The Flame" appearing on Billboard Top Hits: 1988 is another recreation of a single edit done by Bill Inglot rather than the actual single edit much like another songs on the Billboard Top Hits series such as Spandau Ballet's "True", Hall & Oates "Kiss on My List", Air Supply's "Making Love Out of Nothing At All" and Blondie's "Call Me". |
Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 26 March 2021 at 5:05pm
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Actually, I don't think that would happen here, because you can't edit the 45 version down from the LP version. The engineer wouldn't have the right source material to do a new edit.
I think that the Rhino version uses the proper 45 source tape, but with some tape drag in the analog transfer at the beginning of the song. ------------- There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past . |