a few Beatles updates
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Topic: a few Beatles updates
Posted By: davidclark
Subject: a few Beatles updates
Date Posted: 16 May 2006 at 7:16pm
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thought I'd mention the following:
Roll Over Beethoven - you could add "U.S. mix" or something to the stereo version on The Capitol Albums Vol. 1 as it had added reverb not found on the U.K. mix. I do not know how the 45 as released by Capitol Records of Canada sounded (dry or wet) Ain't She Sweet - recorded in Germany in 1961 with Pete Best on drums; when the 45 was mixed to mono for US 45 release, an extra drum overdub was added which is not found in the stereo mix, so technically the stereo version could be LP version, since it's that version that appears on various LPs (e.g., In The Beginning) and the mono version could be 45 version Ticket To Ride - LP fades a few seconds later than the 45 (needs to be added as version info), also slightly remixed in 1987 for CD Yesterday - mono 45 mix has an echo effect in the first bridge on "[some]thing wrong, now I long for yesterday" not present in the stereo mix (so maybe (45 mix and stereo LP mix?) Nowhere Man - the version on Yellow Submarine Songtrack is a remix, actually it was remixed in 1987 for the Rubber Soul CD too! Paperback Writer - 45 has more reverb than the stereo mix, which fades earlier and was done later in 1966 for the U.K. "A Beatles Collection Of Oldies" LP; it is especially noticeable on a long "write write write" after the last verse Hey Jude - the LP fades earlier than the 45 (of course its first LP appearance was in 1970 on the "Hey Jude" LP, the stereo mix having been done 5 Dec 69 for that LP), so should be LP length and 45 length Get Back - The version on Let It Be…Naked is the 45 version remixed and missing the coda Let It Be - the version on Let It Be…Naked is an alternate version as it uses a different guitar solo than that of the 45 and "Let It Be" LP version and a few other edits here and there The Long And Winding Road - the alternate mix, released in 1996 on the Anthology 3 CD, is the same basic track as the 45 and original "Let It Be" LP version but is missing the Phil Spector-produced orchestral and choral overdubs; it features Billy Preston's organ and a guitar which Spector mixed out. So not really an "alternate take", but perhaps an "alternate mix". The version on Let It Be…Naked is indeed an alternate take (recorded 5 days later) May 31: Pat, I made a couple of changes to what I had originally posted. ------------- dc1 |
Replies:
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 16 May 2006 at 8:02pm
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I've been meaning to post some Beatles comments myself.
According to the expert posters on the Steve Hoffman website, every mono track on Capitol Albums Vol. 2 is not true mono, but rather a fold-down of the stereo album mixes... which, for some reason, is how the mono albums were originally released in the US. This is not true of Capitol Albums Vol. 1, I understand. Currently, the only true mono 45 mixes are to be found on the Beatles CD Single and EP boxes, The Capitol Albums Vol. 1, and the original four British CDs. Perhaps the comment "folded mono mix" or "not the 'true' mono mix" or something like that should be added to the mono versions for Captiol Albums Vol. 2. |
Posted By: Rick Hunter
Date Posted: 16 May 2006 at 11:58pm
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In the original batches of The Capitol Albums, Vol.2 box, only "Beatles VI" and "Rubber Soul" were mono fold-downs of the stereo mixes - this due to a production error. The wrong tapes were shipped from the vault to Capitol's mastering plant.
"The Early Beatles" and the U.S. "Help" cds were the correct mono-mix masters. A disc jockey in Philadelphia discovered the errors on B6 and RS the day after the box was released. Capitol was immediately alerted, has since fixed the mistakes and has already begun shipping the box containing the correct mono-mix masters for all four albums. The only way to know the original box from the corrected version is by the number code found on the yellow sticker attached to the shrink-wrap. Rather than explaining further, cut and paste this link. http://www.whatgoeson.com/story.200604131.html You'll see additional links when you scroll down the page, which explain the whole story and how to identify the corrected box from the original flawed one. Ah yes, another nightmare for Pat with the database. Rick |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 17 May 2006 at 12:55pm
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My understanding is that the botched pressing used NEW fold-downs of the stereo mixes, not the original fold-downs, which did contain some differences.
At any rate, I believe no pressings of Capitol Albums Vol. 2 contain the true, dedicated mono mixes. |
Posted By: TomDiehl1
Date Posted: 17 May 2006 at 5:28pm
Both stickered versions of the box are known to contain correct discs in some copies and incorrect discs in others. You cant go by the sticker to determine if you have the correct version. ------------- Live in stereo. |
Rick Hunter wrote:Posted By: Rick Hunter
Date Posted: 17 May 2006 at 5:46pm
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Capitol announces manufacturing error on new CD set
by Bruce Spizer We have learned today that there is a compilation error on the Beatles VI and Rubber Soul discs contained in the initial manufacturing run of The Capitol Albums Volume 2 box set. In particular, the third party mastering facility incorrectly sent stereo-to-mono mixdowns of Beatles VI and Rubber Soul to the manufacturing plants. Capitol Records had ordered and approved mono masters made from the original 1965 mono tapes, which were delivered to the mastering facility directly from the Capitol vault. As soon as Capitol learned of the error, the correct mono masters were sent to the manufacturing plants for another production run. Although there is no discernable difference in the sound quality of the initial run, Capitol made the adjustment for historical accuracy. There are subtle differences between the stereo and mono versions of a few of the songs on the two affected albums. The most noticeable is "I'm Looking Through You" on Rubber Soul. The song has a false start guitar intro unique to the Capitol stereo album (track 9 on the CD). The improperly compiled CD of Rubber Soul contains a stereo-to-mono mixdown of the song. Thus, the mono version of the song (track 21 on the CD) also has a false start intro. The mono version of the song on the corrected CD does not contain the false start intro. Capitol will be issuing information for consumers who purchase box sets with the improperly compiled discs and wish to obtain replacement copies. |
Posted By: Rick Hunter
Date Posted: 17 May 2006 at 5:48pm
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I have both versions, which came packaged as advertised.
http://www.whatgoeson.com/story.20060423.html |
Posted By: davidclark
Date Posted: 18 May 2006 at 4:12pm
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one more thing (I hope some of this makes it to the database as it's valid stuff...)
I believe the single of "The Ballad Of John And Yoko" has the end drums mixed up while the LP and CD appearances (other than "1") it fades. Anyone have the single to verify? If true, so dumb that the Singles Box used the wrong one! ------------- dc1 |
Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 12 December 2013 at 1:50pm
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Looks like all the original US album versions get released on CD before the end of January 2014 for the 50th anniversary of the Beatles coming to America. This includes five CD debuts: The Beatles Story (stereo only), A Hard Day's Night (OST) that was on the United Artist label, Yesterday And Today (with the original butcher cover), Revolver and Hey Jude (stereo only). A total of 13 discs in the box set. You can also purchase them separately (except for The Beatles Story) for a "limited time only." It looks like these will be remastered by the same team that did the 2009 remasters (unless noted above each disc will include the mono and stereo mixes as the Capitol Albums Volumes 1 and 2 did). Looks like if you get this box set you may not need those two previously released boxes.
http://www.thebeatles.com ------------- Santi Paradoa Miami, Florida |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 12 December 2013 at 4:34pm
This looks like a cool release! I'm definitely interested.
That may depend on if you want the "duophonic" mixes from the last two sets. Don't the two Capitol Albums box sets keep the duophonic mixes of the original releases? According to http://www.examiner.com/article/beatles-label-says-they-worked-to-preserve-mixes-used-new-u-s-albums-box - this article , "All of the duophonic mixes have been replaced with the approved stereo mixes when available and some mono mixes in the few instances where no true stereo mix exists." The article then follows with "Great care was taken to preserve the specific mixes and edits that make these U.S. albums unique, the company said. 'These tracks, originally sent to the U.S. by George Martin, have been remastered from the original 1960s U.S. master analog tapes.'" So, it looks like they are only using the US master tapes in those instances where it was a unique mix/edit that was different from the British master tapes. The exception is the fake stereo mixes, which don't appear to be included. I'm not sure if that takes some of the charm away from the set or not (since I didn't grow up listening to the duophonic mixes). At least the fans will now have all the albums in the same sequences as were released here, and I'm sure the sound will be excellent. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 12 December 2013 at 8:26pm
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If all the duophonic versions aren't included, I'm not
interested. Epic fail on Apple/Capitol's part. |
Posted By: bitman
Date Posted: 12 December 2013 at 8:52pm
| okay...so I have the Beatles in Mono box from a few years back. If I want the original U.S. mono 45 versions...do I need this box? If you'll pardon the expression...Help! |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 12 December 2013 at 9:50pm
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Brian: agree 100%. If the intent is to replicate the American releases, anything other than what was on those actual Capitol/UA LPs constitutes revisionism, which defeats the entire point of the impending re-releases. Having said that, as one who bought the original Capitol albums back in the day, the sound quality on those originals left a lot to be desired, especially compared to other contemporary releases, Capitol included (and even those didn't seem to experience significant tracking problems on the record players of the day, as alluded to in that article.)
Not an Epic fail, though; they'll be on Capitol. ;) Soapbox time: No Vee-Jay LPs, no deal! ;) Imagine the fun of getting cross-licensing from the Four Seasons. Actually, the Seasons and Frank Ifield would be crazy not to have their material being released alongside Beatle product, unlikely that it would be to be green-lighted by Apple. Favorite line from that article Aaron cited: In some cases, reverb was added to the tracks to make them sound more 'American.' Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!! (Sorry, but somebody needed to say that.) Bitman: the 2009 mono box set contains the U.K. mono album masters, not the mono U.S. Capitol 45 mixes. The upcoming reissues won't be addressing these, either. Best alternative: track down the last editions of the Capitol Starline reissue 45s on the black/rainbow colorband label from the late '80s-early '90s. It's been a long time since I listened to them, but most of these still featured the Capitol mono 45 mixes where applicable, even if not cut as hot as the original U.S. 45s had been. The pressings were done by Specialty, using quieter vinyl than the earlier (late-'60s to mid-'80s) reissues manufactured by Capitol's own plants. I saw the writing on the wall when the first couple Starline titles began to disappear, and bought up the entire Beatles set from various local stores. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 12 December 2013 at 9:55pm
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Bitman, this is a question I have asked on more than one occasion, and Brian W. was kind enough to answer it for me recently. Here is what he sent to me in a private email, which nicely summarizes it.
For the singles, as far as I know, the only differences between the UK and American are: Ask Me Why, the flip of the 1962 VeeJay pressing and the UK pressing of "Please Please Me," is completely dry, not even a hint of reverb, and has never been issued on CD that way. (Many claim that "Please Please Me" is that way, also, but IF this is true it might only be for the 1962 pressing. The 1964 VeeJay single pressing has a different flip, and I BELIEVE it used the album version... if there is a difference at all.) I'll Cry Instead is a different mix on the US 45, and the mono mix on "Something New" on Capitol Albums is the only place to find it. Thank You, Girl is a unique 45 mix, and it's on the "Mono Masters" compilation part of Beatles in Mono. (As well as Past Masters Vol. 1) "And I Love Her" is a different mix on the US 45, the correct one being on Capitol Albums. And then of course the US reverbed "She's a Woman" and "I Feel Fine," and the longer "I am the Walrus." "Ain't She Sweet" has a unique US single mix. I don't know what other CDs have it, but I've got it on a Bear Family comp. As far as I know, those are the only mixes that are different. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 12 December 2013 at 10:04pm
John, this is true. But weren't most of the US Capitol 45 mixes the same as the British 45 mixes? And weren't most of the British 45 mixes the same as the British mono LP mixes? It's true that there are exceptions as Brian noted in the email to me, but I'm curious to know if there are any other US 45 versions that are different. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: bitman
Date Posted: 13 December 2013 at 10:19am
| Thanks, guys! Looks like you saved me a couple hundred bucks! I use pretty heavy reverb on my radio show to begin with, so some of these differences will be very negligable. I've done my own U.S. reverb remixes on I Feel Fine and She's A Woman. I guess maybe I'll just get the Something New CD for I'll Cry Instead... assuming the new CD uses the correct U.S. mix. |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 13 December 2013 at 7:02pm
You're right, Aaron. I was going more in the direction of the U.S. Capitol mixes as they sounded on the 45s themselves, as opposed to the British mono mixes issued on CD. As an example, I dug out my original Scranton-pressed "Paperback Writer" 45 a year or so ago. Hadn't played it in decades. Put it on, and... where's the bass? I'd forgotten how thin some of those Capitol 45 mixes sounded. Ordinarily, I wouldn't use such a fine-tooth comb, but you know how it is with the Fabs. And the Monkees. ;) David: the Canadian Capitol "Roll Over Beethoven" is dry, like the U.K. mono mix. It was the first Beatles 45 I ever bought (my Mom had issued a "there will be no Beatle records in this house!" decree... which provided the perfect cover for her to surprise us kids with Meet The Beatles! on Easter Sunday. With the embargo thus officially lifted, I had some serious catching up to do. ;) |
Posted By: Yah Shure
Date Posted: 13 December 2013 at 7:07pm
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Posted By: Fetta
Date Posted: 16 December 2013 at 4:08pm
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I only own the original releases with the British versions of the Beatles
albums. I've been contemplating picking up The Capitol Albums Vol 1 and 2. With the new releases due out in January, is there any reason to own The Capitol Albums 1 and 2? |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 16 December 2013 at 8:00pm
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Actually, this new set makes a lot of sense for those who don't own the
2009 stereo and mono box sets or the earlier Capitol Albums box sets. For one, this new set will use the same mastering as the 2009 sets for a majority of the tracks. Plus, you get both the mono and stereo versions for half the price of what it would cost to buy both of the 2009 box sets. The only real downside is for those of us that already bought the other sets and wanted the duophonic mixes from the US albums. ------------- Aaron Kannowski http://www.uptownsound.com" rel="nofollow - Uptown Sound http://www.919thepeak.com" rel="nofollow - 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop |
Posted By: mjb50
Date Posted: 22 November 2021 at 1:43pm
Does anyone here actually have the dry versions of "Ask Me Why" or "Please Please Me" they could share? There's a public torrent site with a rip of the UK 1976 reissue 45, and https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/the-beatles-please-please-me-mix-question.120366/ - Steve Hoffman says this record contains the original versions, but both songs on that rip have lots of reverb on the vocals and guitars. I don't know where anyone gets the idea either of them are "dry". After matching levels & EQ, I can't tell any difference from the album versions. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 25 November 2021 at 4:32am
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I think I might have “Ask Me Why” as an MP3 somewhere, but it’s at home
and I’m out of town. I no longer believe that “Please Please Me” is different from the UK pressing. I got it in sync with the American version, matched the EQ, and I can’t tell where it switches over. But “Ask Me Why” is definitely dryer on the UK pressing. Also, one of the Beatles recording chronologies lists additional work being done on “Ask Me Why” at a later date, after the UK single was released. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 25 November 2021 at 4:42am
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Here we go. The Usenet Guide to Beatles Recording Variations
acknowledges the original Parlophone single as being a different mix done several months earlier than what ended up on the album: ASK ME WHY basic recording- 26 Nov 1962 additional recording- none master tape- twintrack (a) mono 26 Nov 1962. UK: Parlophone R4983 single 1963. US: Vee Jay VJ 498 single 1963. (b) mono 25 Feb 1963. UK: Parlophone PMC 1202 Please Please Me 1963. US: Vee Jay VJLP 1062 Introducing second issue 1963, Vee Jay VJ 581 single 1964. CD: EMI CDP 7 46435 2 Please Please Me 1987, EMI single 1988 |
Posted By: mjb50
Date Posted: 25 November 2021 at 10:18pm
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Thanks for looking into it. I saw that Usenet guide ( http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/beatles/ - version 2 and https://www.friktech.com/btls/variants/BrennanVariationsGuide.pdf - version 3 ). The latter says about "Ask Me Why", The original mono mix, the “dry mix” [a], has no added reverb. The second mono mix, [ b], is a “wet mix” by contrast. It features a complementary amount of reverb. The later mix is the one used for all subsequent appearances including the CD single, since there was one designated official digital mix.
I just tried another comparison in Audition, after getting the EQ to match, and applying some dynamic range compression to the album version to match the 1976 reissue single. The compression effectively raises the volume of the solo reverb tails during the brief pauses in the song, which can seem like "added" reverb, but it's really not. However, I'm of the opinion now that the album mix "Ask Me Why" does have very slightly more reverb in some spots, e.g. in the vocal "you tell me things I want to know" at 1:17. But the single mix is definitely is not dry, and the difference is far from obvious. This is reminding me of the 1996 Byrds remixes, many of which are impossible to discern from the originals. So I can't completely rule out something different on "Please Please Me", especially given the comments by Steve Hoffman, but I'm having a hard time tracking down the original UK single. Well, they're out there, but they're quite pricey these days. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 01 December 2021 at 9:04pm
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More info: I was looking over my recently acquired book, "The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions" by Mark Lewisohn, considered the top expert on this subject. The UK Parlophone "Please Please Me" single is listed as being released in January of 1963.
Lewisohn specifically says the below in his entry for 11/30/62. The info in brackets is mine. 30 November 1962 "[Later] On 25 February 1963, when George Martin and Norman Smith were remixing for the "Please Please Me" LP, they used this day's [11/30/62] mix of "Please Please Me" for the mono version [of the album] but did a new mix, from takes 16, 17, and 18, for the stereo." So the claims of some fans online that reverb was added to the song "Please Please Me" on 2/25/63 when they were mixing the album would appear to be bogus, especially since Lewisohn is very clear that a new mix of "Ask Me Why" (its flip side that does have added reverb on the album) was created on that date. |
Posted By: PopArchivist
Date Posted: 20 October 2022 at 5:21pm
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For anyone interested I just got the Super Deluxe Revolver set that came out from the Beatles.
Since I have the 2009 stereo rips I compared and the stereo on the 2022 set is better balanced and what it should sound like to my ears. Eleanor Rigby is a perfect example. On the 2022 deluxe both sides of the stereo are balanced, where in the 2009 stereo you get one dead listening side while the other side is going at :35 in for example. Hard to explain but the gist of it is that it just is a better mix they finally got the stereo right IMHO. As an extra disc it also includes paperback writer and rain stereo and mono. Keep in mind this is the first album pre-Sgt Pepper where often the stereo got terribly ignored because the Beatles were all about the mono. This is the first time I can say I enjoyed listening to the stereo without the unusual panning that the Beatles were mastered with. https://www.goldminemag.com/reviews/the-beatles-super-deluxe-edition-of-revolver-will-please-the-cd-collector-too - https://www.goldminemag.com/reviews/the-beatles-super-deluxe -edition-of-revolver-will-please-the-cd-collector-too ------------- Favorite two expressions to live by on this board: "You can't download vinyl" and "Not everything is available on CD." |
Posted By: Jack45
Date Posted: 07 February 2024 at 7:24pm
| The Help! (soundtrack) CD that was released in 1/2014 has what I believe to be the 45 version of "Help!" with the "James Bond" intro tacked on for the mono version (the stereo version is correct). The Beatles '65 CD has what I believe are the British stereo mixes of "I Feel Fine" and "She's a Woman." |
Posted By: Hykker
Date Posted: 09 February 2024 at 5:57am
Had to laugh when I read that. Was it possible to find noisier vinyl than Capitol used on their 45 in that era? Crackle city!! |