Delisting entries in the database
Printed From: Top 40 Music on CD
Category: Top 40 Music On Compact Disc
Forum Name: Chat Board
Forum Description: Chat away but please observe the chat board rules
URL: https://top40musiconcd.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=962
Printed Date: 21 April 2025 at 9:17am
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Topic: Delisting entries in the database
Posted By: Pat Downey
Subject: Delisting entries in the database
Date Posted: 18 May 2006 at 8:09pm
| I will be delisting some cd's that currently appear in the database. The ones I will be deleting are all on the Madacy label that have a Canadian address on the cd jacket which technically make them an import. Oddly, there are some Madacy releases that print a U.S. address on the cd jacket and I will be leaving those in the database. |
Replies:
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 07 August 2006 at 11:59am
|
Pat, I know it is your policy to include only domestic CDs in the database, but the question that most of us wonder is "Why?"
I realize that it's not possible to list every CD on Earth that contains a top 40 hit, but why not at least list the ones that you have or ones we can provide info for? As users of the database and music collectors, we don't care if it's an import or not. We're just looking for the correct version of the song. Period. Perhaps your policy could be modified to include domestic CDs and "select" import titles. What I mean by "select" are those discs that contain 45 or LP versions that NO domestic CD contains. For example, "Hit Me With Your Best Shot" by Pat Benatar has never shown up on a domestic CD in its 45 version. Why not list an import CD that has the 45 version? You don't have to list them all, but at least give us one or two sources where we can find the version we're looking for. Going one step further, for those "45 versions" that have never been on domestic or import CDs, but DO appear in the correct version on the promo CD, perhaps you could add this info to the note by the title where you list the run times for DJ edits. For instance, "DJ CD singles run (x:xx) and contain the 45 version." This doesn't have to appear overnight. It can be gradual additions to the database as you (and we) discover them. I know a lot of people would be very happy to see this info added to the already outstanding list you have going. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 07 August 2006 at 2:18pm
| I'm all for that, and I know everyone else is too. I was puzzled by your deleting the Madacy CDs, but I didn't say anything at the time. I thought, "Why would Pat want to do all that work to make the database LESS than it is?" |
Posted By: Grant
Date Posted: 07 August 2006 at 7:09pm
|
I'm also for leaving certain imports like the Madacy CDs, which are all over the place in the U.S.. Go to any Target, Wal-Mart, circuit City, or Best Buy, and there they are! I have several of them, and they were at the same price point as anything domestic.
Methinks when Pat made that rule, imports weren't that easy to come by in the states without having to pay high prices or mail-order. |
Posted By: budaniel
Date Posted: 09 August 2006 at 8:25am
|
Seems like a good idea to me, but you're going on the assumption that
everyone who uses the database is looking for the 45 version. That is really not the case. I'm rarely using the database to find a 45 version-- unless it's much more than just an edit of an LP version. I'm usually looking for the full length unedited version, remixes, 12" versions, uncensored versions, etc., and Pat's database has proven invaluable to me. So from my perspective, I would be arguing that he should also list import CDs that have, say, 12" versions that have NEVER appeared on CD, because they are even much more elusive than 45 versions. Which, in essence, seems to me the reason he has opted to narrow down the database to the domestic releases. Not to mention, when you say "import" you're not talking about CDs from simply one other place that's not the US. Imports stem from all over the country, and often, there are different versions of the same album from numerous countries. In part, that's what also makes the message boards sort of like "supplemental material." Someone will post asking if anyone knows if such-and-such a version is available on an import, and within a day, we're all on it and offering up info. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 09 August 2006 at 9:19am
|
budaniel, I was not assuming that we are only looking for 45 versions. I actually mentioned in my post above "45 or LP," and your point agrees with what I am saying. If a rare version of a song does not exist on a domestic CD, then why not list it? I only used the 45 version of Pat Benatar as an example. I wouldn't be opposed at all to including 12" remixes, etc.
I agree that this message board is valuable for having everyone else help find specific versions of songs, but wouldn't it be even better if the info we dug up here also made the database? I'm not saying list all the international versions of the same album, especially if there's nothing unique. But I would love to be able to do a quick search on the database to find these rare versions not available on US CDs. |
Posted By: budaniel
Date Posted: 09 August 2006 at 10:44am
|
Missed that. sorry aaron. i seriously would love if the database could list
every version, but I was just trying to see it from Pat's point of view. It would take tons of legwork to really build it up right...but if all of us dedicate time and supply what we know to help him out, it could work. i'm all for it. I know many of us already send Pat notes of incorrect database info, so I'm pretty confident that this group of music lovers could make it happen. Having said that, i must say to all fellow posters here that this is by far the best chat board to visit on the net. There's never any attitude, childish opinionated comments, "trolling" or outright blasting of other people like there is on any other site I visit. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 09 August 2006 at 11:20am
| Well, like I said, it could be a gradual thing. If we're talking "select" import titles, then it wouldn't have to be all-inclusive. Pat could add the info as he gets it. I surely hope he will consider this proposal. |
Posted By: Grant
Date Posted: 09 August 2006 at 3:28pm
| If i'm not mistaken, wasn't Pat's original intent to concentrate on where 45 versions could be found? |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 09 August 2006 at 10:04pm
| I don't think so, Grant. I believe Pat's primary focus has always been to show where to find any given Top 40 hit on compact disc. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 09 August 2006 at 10:12pm
I don't think he is, Aaron. Judging by Pat's silence on this discussion since starting this thread, I take it that he's already made up his mind. |
aaronk wrote:Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 09 August 2006 at 10:50pm
| Pat, would you please post your thoughts on this topic? |
Posted By: Pat Downey
Date Posted: 10 August 2006 at 6:22am
| My thoughts are that import cd's are readily discussed on this chat board for anyone that is interested. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 10 August 2006 at 10:00am
| Domestic CDs are also readily discussed on this board, so using that logic, you might as well just do away with the database altogether. Perhaps there is another reason why you choose not to include them? |
Posted By: edtop40
Date Posted: 10 August 2006 at 10:32am
|
LOL.....i agree.....there must be more to the logic than that..... ------------- edtop40 |
Posted By: TomDiehl1
Date Posted: 10 August 2006 at 2:03pm
BUT, not all domestic cds are. Any import cds with important tracks are mentioned on here. Perhaps Pat should start up an international database? Ah, guess not.....there's not enough hours in the day to take on something like that..... ------------- Live in stereo. |
Posted By: EdisonLite
Date Posted: 10 August 2006 at 8:23pm
|
My guess is that having SOME import CDs is not consistent with Pat's thinking and the scope of his parameters. He wishes to have ALL U.S. CDs for ALL top 40 hits (as averaged out by the mystery charts of the day). So either it would have all import CDs (and be a worldwide database) or NO import CDs (and be the U.S. database it is.) I agree with you guys that it would be nice to have select import CDs included (especially when it has a rare version not available in the US), but having SOME import CDs in the database does not seem consistent with Pat's vision of the book/database.
And I think his comment above just means that he doesn't feel a need to have import CDs in the database since we discuss our discoveries here in the chat board, and that we regulars really don't need the info in the database when it's already here. |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 10 August 2006 at 11:28pm
| I think what drives most of us crazy is that we all have to GUESS what Pat is thinking. He won't come out and give us any good reasons why he does what he does. |
Posted By: TomDiehl1
Date Posted: 11 August 2006 at 1:20am
I don't think he really has to, if that's his choice. The database is his labor of love and this is his website as well, he can do whatever he wants with both things, and it doesn't change whether or not i think things should be done differently because it's not about me, and it won't stop me from asking questions about where to find things. ------------- Live in stereo. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 11 August 2006 at 1:42am
It's hard to have that attitude when you pay money to access the database, Tom. Especially for those of us who have spent dozens and dozens of hours posting information and corrections here that Pat INCORPORATES into his database... all without ever so much as a "thanks," that any of us can recall. If you consider those things, you might understand where some of the frustration is coming from. |
Posted By: Grant
Date Posted: 12 August 2006 at 12:47am
|
Well, one thing is to consider that Pat may have limited things to domestic CDs because to include imports would be an impossible task. Easier to just set reasonable parameters.
Perhaps someone else will want to undertake the task of compiling imports. Not me! :) |
Posted By: aaronk
Date Posted: 12 August 2006 at 7:19am
| Again, we're just sitting here guessing. If that's the case, Grant, then why doesn't he just state his reasons instead of keeping us wondering? |
Posted By: Grant
Date Posted: 12 August 2006 at 5:46pm
Sounds like we are talking about him like he's not in the room. He reads this stuff, you know. |
Posted By: Brian W.
Date Posted: 13 August 2006 at 1:07am
Really? That never would have occurred to me. The only criticisms I'm hearing of our criticism seem to be coming from people who, as far as I can tell from their previous postings, are not paying money to access the database, as we are. We're customers. Analogy: If you called up your cable or satellite company eight or ten times and asked, "Why can't the channel lineup be changed a little?" and their only response to your query was, "Because I said so," I think that would bother you. |
Posted By: Todd Ireland
Date Posted: 13 August 2006 at 12:01pm
|
Right on, Brian. It should be noted that those of us who are being critical have been among the absolute most dedicated supporters of Pat's work and website since the board was first launched in 2004. We were also among the very first to purchase subscriptions to his database.
What's putting off so many of us right now is that we rarely receive so much as a "thank you" from Pat for the vast amount of hard work and information we volunteer, and some of our questions to him are met with a vague, cryptic answer and perceived disgust. I'll never forget, for example, when I devoted countless hours to the "Single/Album version distinctions..." thread a while back and, instead of a thank-you for my efforts, Pat criticized me for my "bad habit" of stating "single version" instead of "single length". You could say that, those of us who are paying customers and long-time board loyalists, we're beginning to feel a bit underappreciated and disrespected. I sometimes wonder if Pat is at all aware of just how fortunate he is to have supporters like us here who offer and contribute such a wealth of valuable information for his database and it doesn't cost him a single dime for our services! We're not asking for any money or free stuff in return... Just a polite thank-you every once in a while and straight answers to some of our questions. I really don't think we're asking too much here! Oh, and before someone comes on here (who likely doesn't even subscribe to the database) and sanctimoniously tells us: "well, if you don't like the way Pat does things, then don't post anymore", I politely am telling them in advance to can it. We all share Pat's love for collecting Top 40 music on CD and greatly respect everything he's done to help make our hobby easier. We'd simply like the respect to be a two-way street, that's all. |
Posted By: Grant
Date Posted: 13 August 2006 at 3:09pm
| Todd and Brian, I understand your complaints now. Yes, I now recall all of that. |