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"Smoke on the Water" - Deep Purple

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Todd Ireland View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Todd Ireland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: "Smoke on the Water" - Deep Purple
    Posted: 04 August 2005 at 10:30pm
Pat:

Edtop40 informs me the 45 version of Deep Purple's "Smoke on the Water" runs 3:48. But, according to the 10th edition, the song has a 3:55 run time on the various artist CDs Guitar Rock (Time-Life OPCD-4521) and #1 Radio Hits 1970 - Only Rock 'n Roll - 1974 (JCI 3168). Would you agree these CDs containing the 3:55 length should probably include the comment: (:07 longer than the 45 version)?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 August 2005 at 11:10pm
Does it fade early on the 45 or does it just run faster?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moderator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 August 2005 at 5:35am
I get the running time of the 45 to be 3:49 but I will make a note that it runs :06 longer on the cd's you mentioned. There is no speed variation between the 45 and the cd's mentioned above.
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eriejwg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eriejwg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 June 2008 at 2:22pm
I already have both the live version and studio version edits on CD, but I thought this image of "Smoke On The Water" on an import Capitol was interesting.

Smoke On The Water - Capitol import 45

How would Capitol have a Warner Bros. track?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MCT1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 June 2008 at 3:35pm
Based on the information at the links below, it looks like Deep Purple was signed to Warner Bros. only in the U.S., Canada and Japan. In the U.K. and most other countries, they were with EMI (their first album came out on EMI's Parlophone label in the U.K.; then they moved to the EMI-owned "progressive" Harvest Records when it started up; then later had their own Purple Records, still handled through EMI). I would surmise that this 45 is from a Latin American country in which 1) EMI controlled their rights and 2) due to American influence, Capitol was EMI's flagship label, so they were put on Capitol. It certainly does look odd to see a Deep Purple 45 on Capitol. I'm struck that the 45 has the same distinctive raised edge around the outside of the label found on 45s pressed by Capitol in the U.S.

I don't know why Deep Purple wasn't on Capitol in the U.S., given the connection to EMI. Their original U.S. label was a small company called Tetragramatton Records, which was co-owned by Bill Cosby. Tetragrammaton folded in 1969, just after Deep Purple's third album came out. W.B. somehow acquired the rights to that album and immediately reissued it, but the ownership of the earlier Tetragramatton material seemed to get murky after that. During the period when Deep Purple was on Tetragramatton in the U.S., they were with Polydor in Canada (based on the info at the above link, they were also on Polydor on Japan). Note that German-based Polydor started a Canadian operation in 1966, but did not open a U.S. branch until 1969. So Polydor may not have been considered a viable option in the U.S. at the time Deep Purple was getting started, though I guess allowing Polydor to handle U.S. licensing could have always been a possibility (in that era, Polydor handled U.K. distribution for Atlantic/Atco, and as an apparent corollary, artists signed to Polydor in the U.K. were sometimes placed on Atco in the U.S.).   

http://www.thehighwaystar.com/rosas/jouni/discos/discostu.ht ml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personnel_and_discography_of_De ep_Purple
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jimct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 June 2008 at 5:20pm
MCT1, I haven't researched this, but while Capitol in the U.S. always had the "first crack" to release product from the EMI/Parlophone European operation, they often pass on that option, as they famously did in 1963, by passing on releasing several 1963 Beatles hit U.K. singles. Band management is then free to try to find a U.S. distribution deal, with any interested label, sometimes on a song-by-song basis, or sometimes by entering into a more long-term U.S. deal. Cosby and WB had had a good working relationship for years, as evidenced by both his hit mid 60's comedy albums, and his big 1967 hit single, "Little Ole Man", all on WB. But right around this time, Cosby wanted to support some long-time friends of his, and become the prime investor in a minority-owned, small Philly-area label. I don't know if Cosby's WB deal was up at this exact time, but I do believe WB was very cooperative with Cosby during his new label venture, which I'm sure Cosby very much appreciated. So, when the Tetragrammaton venture was being shut down in 1969, and with the label still owning the U.S. rights to one band still considered "of value" to other U.S. labels, Deep Purple, I think it is reasonable to assume that Cosby probably chose to contact folks he knew about it, obviously at WB, to make them a fair U.S. deal for Deep Purple's future U.S. rights, going forward. I'm sure any revenue he got from it probably helped him retire/settle any leftover financial loose ends from the Tetragrammaton operation, which almost certainly had debts by the end. Please, anybody with more solid knowledge here, please chime in - thanks.

Edited by jimct
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eriejwg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 June 2008 at 6:39pm
Fascinating info so far!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MCT1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 August 2008 at 8:30am
There was a really interesting article a few issues back in the record collectors' magazine Goldmine describing all of the behind the scenes manuevering to find a U.S. record deal for the Beatles after Capitol had turned them down, and the fight that ensued over the group's early material once Capitol had finally decided to pick them up. The article was written by Beatles expert and author Bruce Spizer (who I believe is also an attorney in his "day job"). A few things that caught my attention:

--At the time, Capitol apparently had a lot of automony in deciding whether it would pick up an artist on a U.K. EMI label for American release. In fact, in cases where they didn't, EMI would sometimes actually try to help the artist secure a deal with another U.S. label, which is what happened in the Beatles' case. In these situations, the parent EMI company was effectively acting in competition with its American subsidiary.

--Vee-Jay lost the rights to the Beatles in the summer of 1963 when it failed to pay EMI royalties on Beatles records it had sold. As the Beatles' early releases had not sold well, the amount of money in question was not significant, although it was part of a larger payment that Vee-Jay owned to EMI on a number of U.K. artists that it had licensed. Spizer notes that EMI also owned money to Vee-Jay at the time, and had the financially troubled Vee-Jay been in a position to challenge EMI's termination of the contract (or, more to the point, had they seen any value in doing so) they may have been able to work something out to keep the Beatles' rights.       

--When Beatlemania hit in early 1964, Vee-Jay decided to release Beatles recordings from the tapes they had in their possession, even though their legal counsel advised them that they did not have a strong claim over those recordings (even if Capitol's termination of the contract was perhaps a bit underhanded, it was true that Vee-Jay hadn't paid royalties when they were due) and would probably lose any legal battle initiated by Capitol or EMI. To buy a little time before the inevitable court injunction, Vee-Jay told its key corporate officers to stay out of the office in the days following the release of the first Vee-Jay Beatles record, so that Capitol and EMI would have a hard time finding anyone to serve papers on.

Though not discussed in the article, there were a number of British Invasion-era bands who were on EMI-owned labels in the U.K. but were not on Capitol in the U.S. The Hollies, the Yardbirds, the Dave Clark Five, Gerry & the Pacemakers, and The Animals are all examples, though I'm not sure whether Capitol rejected all of them or if in at least some cases there is another explanation. (In another twist to this, Capitol's Canadian division apparently made its own decisions, and most of the above artists *were* on Capitol in Canada. Capitol also had the Beatles in Canada right from the beginning.) You'd think that by the time Deep Purple came along, they would have learned their lesson, but maybe not....

To Jim's comments about the Bill Cosby connection with Warner Bros., I hadn't thought of that, but I'll bet you're exactly right. It's fun to think how, if things had just gone a little differently, Deep Purple could have been on Capitol in the U.S. (or maybe Harvest, once it started up), or perhaps even Polydor or Atco. Without Cosby's intervention, I guess they could have ended up anywhere after 1969.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdisonLite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 September 2020 at 2:54am
In the "Top Pop Singles" book for "Smoke on the Water", it just says "Smoke on the Water" for the A-Side, and "Smoke on the Water (longer version)" for the B-side. No mention of either side being live. I distinctly remember my 45 having a studio version on one side (I believe, the A-side) and a live version on the other side, and it was a commercial single. In the US, were there 2 different commercial 45s, like the one I have and the one described in the Whitburn Pop Singles book?

Making matters even more confusing, growing up on radio in Boston, I heard both the studio and live versions on the radio, both pretty equally. So what version was considered the radio single exactly?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aaronk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 September 2020 at 8:08am
You are correct, Gordon. See:

https://www.discogs.com/Deep-Purple-Smoke-On-The-Water/relea se/10538448

The record label simply indicates (Edited Version) on both sides, but a closer inspection shows that the 4:34 "Edited Version" is taken from the live album Made In Japan.
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