Top 40 Music on CD Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Top 40 Music On Compact Disc > Chat Board
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Top Pop Singles Vol.1 (1955-89)
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Top Pop Singles Vol.1 (1955-89)

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 6>
Author
Message
jebsib View Drop Down
Music Fan
Music Fan


Joined: 06 April 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 16
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jebsib Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2021 at 9:09am
Paul, what source did you use for Canadian #1's? Wikipedia almost exclusively
cites "RPM", whereas Billboard printed "The Record" in their magazine. Never
certain what is 'official'.
Back to Top
Paul Haney View Drop Down
Music Fan
Music Fan
Avatar

Joined: 01 April 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 43
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Haney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2021 at 9:20am
Originally posted by jebsib jebsib wrote:

Paul, what source did you use for Canadian #1's? Wikipedia almost exclusively
cites "RPM", whereas Billboard printed "The Record" in their magazine. Never
certain what is 'official'.


I'll have to double-check with Joel (he compiled the list). But I believe he used the CHUM charts from 1957-64 and the
RPM charts from 1965-89.
Back to Top
PopArchivist View Drop Down
Music Fan
Music Fan
Avatar

Joined: 30 June 2018
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 36
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PopArchivist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2021 at 10:46am
Originally posted by RoknRobnLoxley RoknRobnLoxley wrote:


Then on 12-5-98, Billboard changed the Hot 100 formula
from a combo of singles sales + pop radio station
airplay to an 'everything plus the kitchen sink' chart
= singles sales + airplay from pop + R&B + rock +
country. Thus 'pop' music on the Hot 100 became
devalued. In my opinion, Billboard should have kept
the pop Hot 100, and created a new separate
'everything' chart.


It had to change. When you had massive airplay hits like Don't Speak, Iris which never charted you basically are not properly representing what was on radio and massive at the time. While I don't like today's album bombs the practice really did not start until Taylor Swift's Fearless. If there is one thing I would fix, it would be making sure entire albums cant chart at once, only the songs meant to be the promoted singles at the time they are promoted by the label.

For me a better division of the books that reflects the Hot 100 change would be 1955-1998 and 1999-2021, but oh well I don't make the decisions!
Favorite two expressions to live by on this board: "You can't download vinyl" and "Not everything is available on CD."
Back to Top
Chartman View Drop Down
Music Fan
Music Fan


Joined: 26 February 2016
Status: Offline
Points: 3
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chartman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2021 at 11:43am
Back in 1973 I bought my first RR publication "1955-
1972 Top Pop Singles". It was a paperback book, yellow
cover, and cost a whopping $30 ($184 in today's
dollars)! Had to save all my allowance and paper route
money. I have bought every Top Pop Singles since, but
that will stop with this new edition. I understand the
need to break the book up into volumes, but Joel's
vision of using 1989 as the break point is silliness.
I view this book as a final edition for these years so
it will never be updated - only Volume 2 will be
updated going forward.

I would have chosen a break date where the Hot 100
significantly changed. There could be debate over
which date, but some have suggested 12/5/98. This was
the beginning of the all-genre chart (in comparison to
a Pop chart) and the demise of the availability of a
single to purchase requirement. I have no qualms with
Billboard's decision, but the composition of the Hot
100 significantly changed that date and it's a natural
cut-off date for a book that is based on the Hot 100.
The 1990 Hot 100 was exactly like the the 1989 Hot
100. If you compare today's Hot 100 with those from
the 60s-80s the only characteristic they have in
common is 100 positions. During the past three months
the twitter feed @Army_Connect has single handily made
"Butter" by BTS the #1 song on the Hot 100. WTF.

So now we have the following situation for music
charts:

7/27/40-7/28/58 - combination of Pop charts (Sales,
Airplay, Juke Box)
8/4/58-8/29/98 - Hot 100 Pop charts
9/5/98-current date - Hot 100 all-genre charts

Maybe Volume 1 could be called "Top Pop Singles 1940-
1998" and Volume 2 titled "Hot 100 Singles 1998-2021".
While I still have tremendous respect for Joel (and
have donated mucho dinero to RR coffers), he is wrong
here.

On a side note, I really hate when Billboard compares
modern chart achievements with those from pre-1998.
Definitely apples to oranges.

Edited by Chartman
Back to Top
Chartman View Drop Down
Music Fan
Music Fan


Joined: 26 February 2016
Status: Offline
Points: 3
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chartman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2021 at 12:08pm
Current situation reminds me of two other instances
with RR books.

The initial "Pop Memories 1890-1954" contained the
following combined sections:

1890-1940 - manufactured chart data from a variety of
sources
1940-1954 - manufactured data plus actual data from
Billboard's Pop charts (Sales, Airplay, and Juke
Boxes).

This book always bothered me because the 1940-1954
data was a mix of facts and opinion. Joel's vision
wasn't correct then and later RR updated the book as
"Pop Memories 1900-1940". Now it makes perfect sense
as none of the book's data was derived from an
official Billboard Singles chart.

The book "Hot Country Songs 1944-2012" incorporated
data from the new and improved (many say f*cked up)
Hot Country Songs chart Billboard revealed on
10/20/12. That was another RR mistake but fortunately
corrected in "Hot Country Songs 1944-2017" book as the
Country Airplay chart from 10/20/12 onwards was used
as the "official book" chart. The same philosophy
applies to the R&B charts but wasn't incorporated in
the "Top R&B Singles 1942-2016" book. Maybe future
editions will use the R&B/Hip-Hop Airplay as the
official book chart.

While I appreciate the added features found in the new
Top Pop Singles, they do not provide much more than
what is contained in the 2018 edition. The charts the
past 3 year have really been "interesting" but not in
a good way. Suspect Billboard will be changing their
formulas and rules again.

I wish Joel and Paul all the best, but with this
latest Pop Singles Volume 1 choice and my
disappointment with the "Rock Tracks 1981-2020"
(mentioned awhile ago), I'm afraid this loyal customer
is no more.

Edited by Chartman
Back to Top
Paul C View Drop Down
Music Fan
Music Fan


Joined: 23 October 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 14
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2021 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by EdisonLite EdisonLite wrote:


And Paul - this reminds me - a question about the
Billboard 2000's Hot 100 chart book. I have the book
but at the moment don't have time to go through every
page to answer this :) I remember there were about 2
or 3 weeks where Billboard published its Pop 100 and
not the Hot 100. It was dedicated to mainstream
airplay (and I believe sales) - and not the multi-
genre chart that the Hot 100 combined. Each week
was alternating: hot 100, pop 100, hot 100, pop 100,
and then always hot 100 again (or something like
that).
In your decades book for the '00s, did it
just include the Pop 100 for the few weeks in
question? Or did it determine the Hot 100 (from the
"Last week column" of the next chart, to keep a
consistent Hot 100 for every week? I'm guessing it's
the first scenario; also, with the 2nd option, there'd
be a few gaps for songs that fell off the Hot 100 and
weren't on the next chart.

What alternated for two months (May and June of 2005)
was that one week the Hot 100 would encompass a full
page and the Pop 100 half a page, and the next week
the Pop 100 would be a full page and the Hot 100 half
a page. This proved to be extremely unpopular, and
after only two months, Billboard went back to
giving the Hot 100 a full page every week. The four
weeks that the Hot 100 was only a half page were May
7, May 21, June 4, and June 18, 2005. In these four
issues, the Hot 100 contained no writer or producer
credits.

The Pop 100 existed from 2005 until 2010 (in its last
year it was available only online). Its methodology
was essentially the same as the Hot 100, except that
the airplay component was based solely on Top 40
airplay. Its methodology was actually very similar to
that of the Hot 100 from November 1991 until November
1998.
Back to Top
Paul C View Drop Down
Music Fan
Music Fan


Joined: 23 October 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 14
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2021 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by Paul Haney Paul Haney wrote:

Originally posted by jebsib jebsib wrote:

Paul, what source
did you use for Canadian #1's? Wikipedia almost
exclusively
cites "RPM", whereas Billboard printed "The Record" in
their magazine. Never
certain what is 'official'.


I'll have to double-check with Joel (he compiled the
list). But I believe he used the CHUM charts from
1957-64 and the
RPM charts from 1965-89.

RPM was published from 1964 until 2000. The
Record
published charts from 1983 until 2001.
There was no national Canadian chart prior to 1964.
Unfortunately, some people treat the CHUM chart from
1957-64 as the Canadian chart, but this is like
treating the chart of a New York station as the
American chart. (In both 1966 and 1967, a song reached
#1 on the CHUM chart without even making the Top 40
nationally.)
Back to Top
Hykker View Drop Down
Music Fan
Music Fan


Joined: 30 October 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 24
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hykker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2021 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by Chartman Chartman wrote:


I would have chosen a break date where the Hot 100
significantly changed. There could be debate over
which date, but some have suggested 12/5/98. This was
the beginning of the all-genre chart (in comparison to
a Pop chart) and the demise of the availability of a
single to purchase requirement. I have no qualms with
Billboard's decision, but the composition of the Hot
100 significantly changed that date and it's a natural
cut-off date for a book that is based on the Hot 100.


I agree with you to a point, but I'd imagine the
decision to use 1989 as the cutoff was chosen as a
mid-point in the rock era.

Since when was the Hot 100 ever a pop-only chart?
I think you're blaming the messenger here...it's not
RR's fault that BB took so long to acknowledge that a
song could be a hit without being released as a
single. Yeah, the current charts are a mess,
personally IMHO the concept of a "Hot 100" is an
anachronism. There really are no across-the-board
hits anymore.

Originally posted by Paul C Paul C wrote:


There was no national Canadian chart prior to 1964.
Unfortunately, some people treat the CHUM chart from
1957-64 as the Canadian chart, but this is like
treating the chart of a New York station as the
American chart.


So what would you do instead? Even if it was possible
to collate charts from every key Canadian station pre-
1964 to create a pseudo-national chart, radio charts
are subjective by definition.
Maybe a better option is to ignore Canadian hits older
than '64?
Back to Top
PopArchivist View Drop Down
Music Fan
Music Fan
Avatar

Joined: 30 June 2018
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 36
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PopArchivist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2021 at 6:15pm
Originally posted by Hykker Hykker wrote:

   I agree with you to a point, but I'd imagine the decision to use 1989 as the cutoff was chosen as a mid-point in the rock era.



If you want to argue in favor for 1989 as a cut off, you can look at it like Whitburn does as the end of the vinyl 45 age and the dawn of the Cassette/CD Promo/CD/Digital download era which is from 1990 on.

Today's Hot 100 is a hot mess of songs from all backgrounds, pop, country, r & b, hip hop etc. Not for the better. Plus the crazy album drops and of course whether something gets streamed on Tik Tok or Youtube factors in.

I miss the days when a hit was a hit. Now whole albums are a hit and the latest youtube sensation is a hit too...
Favorite two expressions to live by on this board: "You can't download vinyl" and "Not everything is available on CD."
Back to Top
Chartman View Drop Down
Music Fan
Music Fan


Joined: 26 February 2016
Status: Offline
Points: 3
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chartman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 11:18am
Originally posted by Hykker Hykker wrote:


Since when was the Hot 100 ever a pop-only chart?
I think you're blaming the messenger here...it's not
RR's fault that BB took so long to acknowledge that a
song could be a hit without being released as a
single...


Obviously C&W and R&B songs made the Hot 100 since
it's inception, but as crossover hits, i.e. C&W and
R&B songs that were played on Pop Stations. Starting
with the 12/5/98 chart Billboard not only increased
the percentage of charts points from radio play, but
they also increased the number and TYPE of radio
stations surveyed. Consequently many songs that
received airplay on C&W and R&B stations only (and not
pop) made the chart (unlike before) and would not be
considered as crossover hits. That's a significant
change.

Per Joel Whitburn Top Pop Singles 1955-2002 page xi
"December 5, 1998, the date that Billboard introduced
its MOST REVISED revised Hot 100 EVER" and Top Pop
Singles 1955-2018 page 5 "On December 5, 1998,
Billboard debuted a completely revised Hot 100, which
included, for the first time, songs that were not
commercially available as singles. The revised chart
now included ALL FORMATS of music, so Country, Latin
and Christian music were well represented on the Hot
100 and Bubbling Under charts". This marked the end of
the old 1958-1998 Hot 100.

A quick look at the 12/5/98 chart shows that "I'm Your
Angel" by R. Kelly & Celine Dion had been on the new
Hot 100 (test charts) for 6 weeks and jumped from 46
to 1. This was the first appearance on the Hot 100 so
what kind of chart run would this song have had under
the old format? "From This Moment On" by Shania Twain
had been on the new Hot 100 for 27 weeks and jumped
from 34 to 5. This was its first appearance (although
the song had been on the Airplay chart for quite some
time) on the Hot 100. Whitburn notes in his "Billboard
Hot 100 Charts, The Nineties "On this date, Billboard
DRAMATICALLY revised their Hot 100-compilation
methodology".

Edited by Chartman
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 6>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.07
Copyright ©2001-2024 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.039 seconds.