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(Sittin On) The Dock Of The Bay - Otis R |
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Ringmaster_D ![]() Music Fan ![]() Joined: 08 July 2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 0 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 06 October 2013 at 2:34pm |
Hello all.
I was reading a recent thread on the Steve Hoffman board and they referenced that the mono mix of Dock Of The Bay by Otis Redding on the Stax-Volt box was not the correct single mix. Here's Steve Hoffman's quote: The wrong mono mix is on the Stax box. The right mono mix (I have the original VOLT 45 promo) is not on any digital disc that I know of. The stereo mix is mighty nice if you get a good CD that has been mastered correctly. I prefer it to the mono which is rare for me. The thread later goes on to state that there may have been multiple mono single mixes. I don't have the original 45, but I thought someone might have more info to get to the bottom of this. |
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jimct ![]() Music Fan ![]() Joined: 07 April 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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Dave, my 1968 Volt 157 promo 45 has a listed time of (2:38), an actual
time of (2:36), and deadwax info of "VLT-13684-1 1". I also own two Volt 157 stock copies. One has the black and red label design (which is the same label design as found on my promo, but the label colors on my promo are, not surprisingly, black and white instead.) Listed time (2:38), actual time (2:41), with deadwax info of "VLT-13684- 6". My second stock copy has a multi-colored "Volt Records" (alternating green, orange and red with each letter) a red lightning bolt, with an orange, black and brown label, which I believe Volt was transitioning over to, by late spring of '68. This copy has a listed time of (2:38), an actual time of (2:42), with deadwax info of "VLT-13684-7". Based on both your post and my own findings here, Dave, I believe further examination is necessary. Therefore, I will forward the above 45 versions to Aaron, for further analysis, as his busy schedule permits. Edited by jimct |
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Yah Shure ![]() Music Fan ![]() Joined: 11 December 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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Listed (2:38) actual (2:40) on my stock copy (a Plastic Products pressing; deadwax is "VLT-13684-15".)
In comparing the two CDs I have that contain this recording in mono with my Volt 157 45, I find that there are, indeed, two different mono mixes: 1) Otis' vocal is way up front, and everything else - bass, horns, percussion, etc. - is decidedly in the background. This is the mix on my Volt 157 stock 45, and it sounds very similar to the track on the Atlantic Rhythm And Blues 1947-1974 Volume 6 CD (Atlantic 81298). 2) Otis' vocal is moved quite noticeably back in the mix, with the bass, horns, etc. moved more forward than on mix #1. This mix actually packs more punch than #1, but Otis sounds like he's stepped back from the mic a couple of feet and gets a little lost in the crowd (the guitar and horns overpower him at times.) The CD I have this mix on is disc two of the 1992 Rhino promo sampler PRO2 90129 The Rhino . Atlantic . Remasters Collection, which sports the "Rhino Atlantic & Atco REmasters" logo on the back. The very beginning of the intro is clipped off on this disc. When I fold the stereo track from the Time Life Super Hits 1968 CD to mono, it doesn't sound like either of the two mono mixes above. Otis' vocal is more upfront (like on mix #1) but the drums, in particular, are far more in the background than on mix #1. |
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eriejwg ![]() Music Fan ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 June 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 41 |
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Did some searching around on Rhapsody. I found, what sounds
like the 45 mix John describes above, on a collection called "Platoon And Songs Of The Era." I have sent a file to John (Yah Shure) for analysis. |
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Yah Shure ![]() Music Fan ![]() Joined: 11 December 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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John, your file from Platoon And Other Songs Of The Era does match the mix on my Volt 45 and the Atlantic Rhythm And Blues 1947-1974 Volume 6 CD; however - unlike the Atlantic disc - it sounds like the mono tape was transferred with a stereo playback head.
Mix differences aside (and that's what I was concentrating on during last night's comparisons) there is a surprising difference in sound quality between these two digital sources and my vinyl Volt 45: the 45 sounds very crisp and clear, with plenty of detail, while the two digital sources are duller than last month's dishwater. UPDATE: I also compared the Volt 45 with a mid-'70s gold-label Specialty-pressed Atlantic Oldies Series reissue 45 (deadwax "VLT 13684-10", actual time just shy of 2:41) and I'd still give the edge to the Volt 45 (which, I should note, does have a pretty fair amount of hum during the fade.) The two are sourced from the same mono mix, and while the Volt still sounds better, the differences are not as pronounced as they were with the two digital sources. There's also a minor speed difference and the reissue 45's fade kicks in just a hair earlier than it does on the Volt single. Edited by Yah Shure |
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crapfromthepast ![]() Music Fan ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 September 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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Stereo version
I think the first version to appear on CD was the stereo version on Warner Special Products' Ultimate (1986). There are a bunch of CDs that appear to use the same analog transfer as Ultimate, but all have a slightly longer fade:
There was one Time-Life disc that was based on the same analog transfer as all of the above, but had its left/right channels reversed - Time-Life's Superhits Vol. 2 1968 (1990). There are a few discs that use the same analog transfer as Superhits, and all have their left/right channels reversed:
Mono mix with the vocals way out in front This turned up on Time-Life's Classic Rock Vol. 4 1968 (1987), but is from a really high-generation tape source and sounds really dreadful. Infinitely better is the version on Rhino's Millennium New Soul Party (2000), which sounds truly stellar in comparison. I'm really surprised that this disc isn't a digital clone of the Stax/Volt box or Very Best Of, but there it is. Probably the only place on CD to find the vocals-out-in-front mix from really good source tapes. Mono mix with the vocals mixed pretty low compared to the instrumentation The first appearance on CD is on the 9-CD Complete Stax/Volt Vol. 1 Disc 9 (1991). There are some CDs that all use the same analog transfer as the Stax/Volt box:
For sound quality, go with the Rhino discs for the mono mixes. The stereo mixes aren't all that great on any of the CDs I listed above. I think the best of the bunch is probably Atlantic's Golden Age Of Black Music 1960-1970 (1988), which has a lot of hiss and the longest fade of the bunch. The hiss is probably indicative of a high-generation tape source, but I don't know of any discs that use a lower-generation tape source. (Are there any mid-'90s-era Rhino discs that feature the stereo version?) Edited by crapfromthepast |
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There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one Crap From The Past.
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crapfromthepast ![]() Music Fan ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 September 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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Upon further listening, I think the vocals-way-out-in-front mono mix may be a fold-down of the stereo mix.
I'll be happy to send out test files to those interested in comparing... Edited by crapfromthepast |
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There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one Crap From The Past.
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MMathews ![]() Music Fan ![]() Joined: 18 August 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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Ron,
That's what i was getting too, I can't really tell a difference between the stereo-fold-down and the "vocals up front" mono mix. I'd be interested to hear the "vocals buried" mix. MM |
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crapfromthepast ![]() Music Fan ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 September 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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Thanks to John and Brian for sending me files, I can confirm:
The true 45 mix is the mono mix with the vocals way out in front. It's on:
Now to figure out where the vocals-to-the-back mix came from. It originally appeared on the Stax/Volt box in 1991, so Bill Inglot must have unearthed a tape of this mix buried in a vault somewhere. I suspect that this may be as much as we'll ever know... Edited by crapfromthepast |
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There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one Crap From The Past.
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aaronk ![]() Admin Group ![]() Joined: 16 January 2005 Location: United States Status: Online Points: 88 |
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The mono mix on Rhino's 2-CD Definitive Soul Collection is also very nice sounding and is the correct mono mix.
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