Top 40 Music on Compact Disc: Sweeney Todd "Roxy Roller"

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Topic: Sweeney Todd "Roxy Roller"

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Jody Thornton
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Posted: 15 February 2009 at 12:53am \| IP Logged

I need some help "Canadian-wise" here. I'm wondering if there was EVER a stereo mix of this track (even if it was the LP version). Is there one on CD or vinyl?

All of ther mixes I have heard have been mono. Now I'm speaking of the Nick Gilder version - not the Bryan Adams version.

By the way, this fits in to our re-recording as a single conversation. The Bryan Adams version was a re-recording of the original version a year before. In 1976, I believe that the Bryan Adams record charted lowly on the US Billboard chart.

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davidclark
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Posted: 15 February 2009 at 5:46am \| IP Logged

Hi Jody,

Yes, this is available in a stereo mix, albeit the LP version. I have it on the Sweeney Todd LP on London. Note that this LP was also issued with the mono single version and my friend has a copy of that LP.

Would you like to hear the stereo version?

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Paul Haney
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Posted: 15 February 2009 at 7:18am \| IP Logged

Jody Thornton wrote:

The Bryan Adams version was a re-recording of the original version a year before. In 1976, I believe that the Bryan Adams record charted lowly on the US Billboard chart.

Actually, BOTH versions charted on the Hot 100. The original Nick Gilder version peaked at #90 (on 8/21/76) and the Bryan Adams version peaked at #99 (on 9/18/76).

AndrewChouffi
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Posted: 15 February 2009 at 10:07am \| IP Logged

To David Clark:

What is the difference between the Gilder-led stereo album version & Gilder-led mono single version?

I'd love to hear the stereo version!

Andy

Jody Thornton
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Posted: 15 February 2009 at 10:14am \| IP Logged

davidclark wrote:

Yes I would REALLY REALLY Love to hear the stereo version. My email addy is jgthornton@gmail.com

Cheers,
Jody

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davidclark
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Posted: 15 February 2009 at 1:18pm \| IP Logged

45 is mixed different from the LP, it has a guitar overdub on the instrumental bridge not present on the LP, and it edits out the last verse. LP runs 3:53.

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Hykker
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Posted: 03 March 2009 at 6:55am \| IP Logged

Jody Thornton wrote:

The Bryan Adams version was a re-recording of the original version a year before. In 1976, I believe that the Bryan Adams record charted lowly on the US Billboard chart.

Curiously, is the same Bryan Adams we all know and love? My copy of "Roxy Roller" ID's him as Bryan Guy Adams. The singer on that single sounds more like Nick Gilder than the Bryan Adams who had a string of hits in the 80s.

AndrewChouffi
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Posted: 03 March 2009 at 8:26am \| IP Logged

Yes, "Guy" is Bryan Adams' middle name & he joined Sweeney Todd when he was fifteen years old & became a superstar in his early twenties.

Andy

jimct
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Posted: 01 June 2009 at 8:51am \| IP Logged

I just discovered that both of my CD versions of this song feature the original, Nick Gilder vocal. Given Bryan Adams' mega-success after his early, Roxy Roller "replacement vocal", I would've suspected that the Gilder version would be harder of the two to locate on a CD these days - but, for me at least, it has been just the opposite. Anyone happen to know where I can snag the "Bryan Guy Adams" Roxy Roller vocal version on a domestic or an import CD?

eriejwg
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Posted: 01 June 2009 at 9:41am \| IP Logged

Jim: Here's what I found in a Google search...

Sweeney Todd feat. Bryan Adams

jimct
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Posted: 01 June 2009 at 8:13pm \| IP Logged

Thanks for the browse, John. I did see that one myself earlier in my search, but in browsing that import disc's track listings, the song "Roxy Roller" does not actually appear to be included on it.

crapfromthepast
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Posted: 08 November 2016 at 6:16pm \| IP Logged

Sweeney Todd's "Roxy Roller" hit #1 in Canada in 1976, but is still completely unknown in the US. Amazingly, there are three different versions of the song, with three different lead singers. Two of the three versions peaked at #90 and #99 on the Hot 100, respectively.

I can fill in what I know about the song, and I'll indicate where I'm guessing.

Version 1: lead vocals by Nick Gilder

This was the hit version in Canada. It's stereo on the Sweeney Todd LP (runs about 3:50), with a dedicated mono mix on the 45 (runs about 2:47) that can't be edited down from the LP version. Some later pressings of the LP used the 45 mix. The same mono 45 version later appeared as credited to Nick Gilder on Chrysalis, so he didn't rerecord the song for his later solo stuff.

I know that singer Nick Gilder and guitarist Jim McCulloch left the group before the song hit big in Canada, prompting producer Martin Shaer to rerecord the song with new lead vocalists. I don't know why the rerecordings were done, but I'd guess that London lost the right to the song when the two founding members of Sweeney Todd left the band, so that the song effectively became a Nick Gilder record on another label.

The same version also exists on Chrysalis CHS-2115 as by just "Nick Gilder". There's a white-label promo 45 on Chrysalis CHS-2115-DJ that says it's stereo on one side (matrix number 2115-AS) and mono on the other (matrix number 2115-AM-RE-1). The matrix number on the Chrysalis commercial 45s match the mono version from the promo 45.

Version 2: lead vocals by Clark Perry

This is the version that peaked at US#90 on Aug 21 1976.

In the US, this version appeared in stereo on the commercial 45 (London 5N-240, with the song "Rue De Chance" on the B-side), and stereo/mono on the promo 45 (London 5N-240-DJ; mono is a fold-down of the stereo mix). It runs about 2:47. The artist on both sides is credited as "Sweeney Todd".

This version used the same instrumental performance as the Nick Gilder version, but mixed a little differently. (Listen to the very loud boingy effect around 1:03, which is much less prominent on the Nick Gilder version. The boinginess is repeated around 2:03 on this version, but doesn't seem to be in the Nick Gilder version at all.)

I doubt that there was an equivalent 3:50-length version with Clark Perry, but can't confirm.

Version 3: lead vocals by Bryan Adams

This is the version that peaked at US#99 on Sep 18 1976.

In the US, this version appeared in stereo on the commercial 45 (London 5N-244, with the song "Rue De Chance" on the B-side), and stereo/mono on the promo 45 (London 5N-244-DJ; mono is a fold-down of the stereo mix). It runs about 2:48. The artist on both sides is credited as "Sweeney Todd Featuring Bryan Guy Adams".

It's possible that producer Martin Shaer wasn't happy with Clark Perry's vocals, or maybe had to remove Jim McCulloch's guitar part for legal reasons. Who knows? For whatever reason, Martin Shaer decided to rerecord the song again from scratch in its entirety, backing track and all. (Listen to the drum fill at 2:15, which is different from what's on the two earlier versions.)

I doubt that there was an equivalent 3:50-length version with Bryan Adams, but can't confirm.

If you're going to hunt down every existing version of the song, you'll want:

Nick Gilder LP version (stereo)
Nick Gilder 45 version (mono)
Nick Gilder 45 version (stereo - I can't confirm that this exists, since I haven't heard the promo 45)
Clark Perry 45 version (stereo; mono is fold-down of stereo)
Bryan Adams 45 version (stereo; mono is fold-down of stereo)

[Edited to include updated info from below in this thread.]

Edited by crapfromthepast on 20 December 2016 at 11:32am

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davidclark
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Posted: 08 November 2016 at 9:35pm \| IP Logged

Great analysis, Ron.

I can confirm that the Nick Gilder 45 version did indeed appear on some
pressings of the CAD LP (my copy has the stereo LP version while my friend's
has the mono 45).

Edited by davidclark on 08 November 2016 at 9:45pm

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eriejwg
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Posted: 09 November 2016 at 11:02pm \| IP Logged

The 2:45 mono 45 version of "Roxy Roller" appears on the
Best Of Nick Gilder.

crapfromthepast
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Posted: 26 November 2016 at 5:57pm \| IP Logged

New information, thanks to Jeff K!

Which leads to a big question: Did the London 240 commercial 45 feature the Clark Perry vocals? [Edited - Answer: Yes!]

I can confirm the existence of the following 45s:

commercial London 5N-240
A-side: Roxy Roller, Clark Perry version in stereo, matrix number ZCL 8162 (confirmed by audio from Paul H and scan on Discogs)
B-side: Rue De Chance, vocals by Clark Perry?, matrix number ZCL 8163 (scan on Discogs)

promo London 5N-240-DJ
A-side: Roxy Roller, Clark Perry version in stereo, matrix number ZCL 8162 (confirmed by audio and scans from Jeff K)
B-side: Roxy Roller, Clark Perry version in mono, matrix number CL 8162 (confirmed by audio and scans from Jeff K)

commercial London 5N-244
A-side: Roxy Roller, Bryan Guy Adams version in stereo, matrix number ZCL 8171 (scan on Discogs)
B-side: Rue De Chance, Bryan Guy Adams vocals in stereo, matrix number ZCL 8172 (scan on Discogs)

promo London 5N-244-DJ
A-side: Roxy Roller, Bryan Guy Adams version in stereo, matrix number ZCL 8171 (scan on Discogs)
B-side: Roxy Roller, Bryan Guy Adams version in mono, matrix number CL 8171 (scan on Discogs)

London never released the original Nick Gilder version on a 45 in the US! In the US, the original version of the song (the hit in Canada) is considered a Nick Gilder solo record, and came out on a Chrysalis 45.

[Edited to include updated info from below in the thread.]

Edited by crapfromthepast on 20 December 2016 at 11:36am

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Paul Haney
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Posted: 27 November 2016 at 4:53am \| IP Logged

WOW! If the charted version on London 240 really IS Clark Perry instead of Nick Gilder, then the Top Pop Singles book needs to be amended. That's certainly news to me.

crapfromthepast
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Posted: 20 December 2016 at 11:38am \| IP Logged

Thanks to Paul, I can confirm that the commercial release of London 240 is the Clark Perry version in stereo.

I've updated two of my posts farther up in the thread to reflect this.

Now, we can ask: why? Perhaps I should contact producer Martin Shaer...

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Paul Haney
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Posted: 20 December 2016 at 11:56am \| IP Logged

Thanks for all your work on this one, Ron!

The next edition of Top Pop Singles will be amended accordingly.

crapfromthepast
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Posted: 20 December 2016 at 2:06pm \| IP Logged

From Billboard, October 2, 1976:

Sweeney Todd, which broke wide open in the Canadian market with its third single release, "Roxy Roller," in mid-April, has been hard put to keep up with its own personnel, administrative and recording changes in the last six months, a scenario that has undoubtedly had a detrimental effect on product consistency and promotion.

The group released a debut album on London late in 1975. A first single, "Rock and Roll Story," released with the album, and a second, "Sweeney Todd Folder," released in February, received regional airplay across the country, with "Folder" making it as a solid West Coast hit. Negotiations for an American label deal were underway between ST manager Barry Samuels and several American majors, primarily London and Chrysalis. London was, reportedly, interested in signing the group, while Chrysalis was more inclined to sign lead singer Nick Gilder and lead guitarist Jim McCulloch to separate recording deals.

The situation came to a head in April; no sooner was Roxy Roller released than Gilder and McCulloch signed with Chrysalis, Gilder for a five-year, five-album deal and McCulloch to collaborate with Gilder as a writing team (they had been responsible for most of the material on the ST album) and work on his own projects.

Martin Shaer, head of the London-distributed Top Hat International production company to which the group is signed, assumed management of the group (which now consisted of Budd Marr on bass, Dan Gaurdin on keyboards and John Booth on drums) and immediately replaced Gilder and McCulloch with Clark Perry and Skip Prest. Samuels retained management on Gilder and McCulloch; Gilder is expected to have a single released in September and an LP later in the year.

Chrysalis had purchased the US rights to the ST album masters as part of the deal, so the new group returned to the studio to re-record "Roxy Roller" along with three other sides-"Juicy Loose," "Rue De Chance" and "Broadway Boogie"-in anticipation of signing a U.S. deal with London. The first "Roxy Roller," in the interim, was topping charts across Canada, rising to No. 1 on 15 stations and charted top 10 on 15 more.

In July, Shaer closed a distribution deal for Top Hat with London in the US that gave the new "Roxy Roller" immediate American release. Initial reaction was strong, but again, in August, the group was experiencing personnel changes. This time new lead vocalist Clark Perry was being replaced by even newer lead vocalist-guitarist Brian Adams, who began working into the band on several Alberta dates late in the month.

If American response to "Roxy" is strong, plans are to rush out an album for the American market by October. Otherwise, the group will have to hold off until late in the year or early 1977 for a second album release. A new single, "Juicy Loose," was released in Canada in August.

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eriejwg
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Posted: 20 December 2016 at 5:59pm \| IP Logged

Guessing the single that Gilder was to release in late
1977/early 1978 was Hot Child In The City?

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