Cherish - Association

NightAire wrote: Reading about the Haeco-CSG process on CSG">Wikipedia, it got me wondering if this process might be a benefit to internet radio stations, which are often listened to on (mono) smartphone speakers and (mono) smart speakers like Amazon Alexa Dot and Google's Nest.

Hi Gene,

I would suggest no internet station experiment in 2022
with this process as it makes headphone listening a
diffuse, confusing experience (and a lot of people listen
on headphones these days).

Plus, by the early-to-mid '70s about 99% of all
professionally released recordings were mixed to be
compatible in stereo as well as when folded down to mono.
The reason why the Haeco-CSG system was introduced back
in the '60s was because some smaller studios had only 4-
tracks, or only 8-tracks with no pan-pots on the board -
therefore phantom-center channel information might
dominate side-channel information when folded down to
monaural. Record companies at that time wanted to save
money by not hiring union studios to also mix in mono now
that stereo was the customer-preferred format.

Andy

VWestlife wrote: You can remove Haeco-CSG processing by using an audio editor to apply a 90 degree phase shift to the right channel. Unfortunately there is no way to tell whether it was originally applied as a negative phase shift or positive phase shift, so if the two channels come out as out-of-phase after removing the Haeco-CSG phase shift, then invert one of the channels to correct it. In the case of the Association "Greatest Hits" album (on LP or CD), some tracks have Haeco-CSG with a positive phase shift, some have it with a negative phase shift, and some don't use it at all (the ones which were mixed with everything far left or far right and don't have anything in the middle). The big hits -- "Cherish", "Windy", "Never My Love", and "Along Comes Mary" -- all sound far superior with the Haeco-CSG processing removed. Other notable hits with Haeco-CSG processing which wasn't removed for their CD releases: Cream - White Room Sergio Mendes & Brasil '66 - Fool On The Hill The Vogues - Turn Around, Look At Me

There are 2 Wheels Of Fire releases I know of that the CSG have it removed (or possible never present on the masters used), the 2010 SHM-CD and SHM-SACD from Japan.

Which one prefers is in the ear of the beholder!

Edited by whyaduck

Thank you for responding.

I apologize for not responding sooner. I have not been
able to be on this site much lately.

Thank you for your kind offer; in fact, I have the same
Dick Bartley CD.

I discovered years later that the scratchy sound I
initially wrote about 16 years ago is on all CDs that I
own with the stereo LP-version. These have an extra "And
I do. Cherish you." Therefore, the stereo LP-version is
longer in length than the mono 45-version. Off the top
of my head, the mono 45-version runs around 3:12;
nonetheless, CDs such as the Bartley CD with the mono 45-
version do not have this scratchy sound because it occurs
during the extra lyrics I mention above. Perhaps this
scratchy sound is supposed to be on the stereo LP-
version, or I have just been hearing things for a very
long time.

Again, any CDs with the mono 45-version (and I know there
are not many of them that have been released) do not have
the scratchy sound that caused me to write my original
post.

Thanks again.
Mike