"Every 1’s a Winner" - Hot Chocolate

jimct wrote: Todd: My best guess here is that this song was a "left field, late-in-their-chart-career" hit by the group. They actually started in the U.S. on Apple ("Give Peace A Chance"), and had the original UK hit of "Brother Louie" (with MUCH cruder lyrics), that Stories tamed down a lot for the U.S. hit. The U.S. label for "Every 1's..." (Infinity) went bankrupt only about a year after it opened. MCA inherited their catalog. When Rhino came calling for its "Have A Nice Day" inclusion, (its first CD appearance, I believe) they probably asked MCA for the 45 version, and it appears were lucky to get a competant person to handle that request. Rhino probably had a "go-to" guy inside MCA, since they were a "steady" customer. Then, years go by. When Hot Chocolate "Hits" packages then ask for it, the then-MCA junior engineers (who get stuck with these requests) probably assumed it hadn't ever been digitized before, and, as usual, took the quick, easy way out by chopping the first version they could find, and tried to simulate the 45, thinking no one would notice. They wouldn't believe the LP version would have any value here. Who ever bought Hot Chocolate LPs? Todd, probably the same old story we've seen time and again. But, MCA tape library records are probably more confusing in this case, since MCA "proper" wasn't the recording's "originator". It requires time and effort to sort out a "foreign" catalog, and often we don't get it. Similar case: Have we ever seen the 45v for "Poetry Man" on CD? No. First out on Shelter; ownership inherited by MCA - they appear to have NO clue - the LP version is on ALL CDs. But Todd, ultimately, your guess is as good as mine.

Sony owns the Phoebe Snow catalog.

Well, Bill Inglot, then, of Rhino, sometimes had authorization to enter record companies vaults to pull the correct tapes.

I always wondered how the wrong edits of songs appear on CDs. I assumed the producer ordered an edit to appriximate a single version. Bill Inglot has stated that he has done this quite frequently in order to use a source with better sound, or if the 45 master was damaged. The problem with recreating 45 edits is that, if there is no 45 to use for a guide, or the editor doesn't remember where the edits are, we get the wrong thing on the CD. This has always been an irritation for me, as I have had to many times go in and do my own 45 edits. I used my own correct 45 edits of Boz Scaggs' "Lowdown" until it finally appeared on exactly one comp. Same with Wild Cherry's "Play That Funky Music".

Interesting comments about Infinity. I always wondered exactly what happened to that label. They had a lot of hits in 1979, from Orleans, Spyro Gyra, Rupert Holmes, and Hot Chocolate. They had a great year in 1979.

Edited by The Hits Man

80smusicfreak wrote: Actually, I feel that's a bit of a stretch. HC's original included two spoken-word interludes: One toward the beginning where "Louie" meets and speaks w/ the black girl's father, and later in the song, when the black girl meets and speaks w/ "Louie's" white father. Those interludes - which included the expressions "honky" and "spook" - were what was cut when Stories later recorded the song (otherwise, their cover was faithful). I could see how the terms "honky" and "spook" might've been a bit questionable by 1973 standards, but certainly not today...

Are you kidding? In these politically correct times where every time some radio host puts his foot in his mouth he's flagged as "racist"?

No, it wouldn't warrant a "neither" comment. When I say that the edit is slightly off, we're talking about a fraction of a second. If you were to play the actual 45 and then play the CD, you'd think the edit was correct. A comment like "45 version but longer" would be more accurate. I was just stating the reason that the fade is longer is because it was a custom edit, and the reason I could tell it was a custom edit was because of the fraction of a second difference at the edit point.

aaronk wrote: No, it wouldn't warrant a "neither" comment. When I say that the edit is slightly off, we're talking about a fraction of a second. If you were to play the actual 45 and then play the CD, you'd think the edit was correct. A comment like "45 version but longer" would be more accurate. I was just stating the reason that the fade is longer is because it was a custom edit, and the reason I could tell it was a custom edit was because of the fraction of a second difference at the edit point.

I've long suspected a significant number of 45 versions that exist on CD are custom edited from their respective LP versions and other sources to replicate the 45. And I'd be willing to bet many of these custom edit points are off by a fraction of a second compared to their vinyl 45 counterparts (I've spotted several instances of this myself) because many mastering engineers, especially those working for the major record labels, just don't pay careful attention to detail like some of us do. Like Aaron said, most of the time these ever-so-slightly-off custom edits aren't noticeable unless you're doing a direct A/B comparison with the vinyl 45 using digital software. Yet this doesn't necessarily stop 45 "purists" who seek to obtain exact single version replicas in master tape/CD quality from feeling a bit uneasy about any less-than-precise editing! (Speaking for myself anyway.)

Edited by Todd Ireland

And, with the razor blade method of editing, only one chance to get it right. No 'undo' capability like today...
:)