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Glenn Miller - In The Mood

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crapfromthepast View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 May 2021 at 5:21pm
"In The Mood" is 81 years old as of this post, so it's likely before everyone's time here on the board.

Does anyone have any strong opinions regarding CD sources of 1940s and 1950s tracks, like "In The Mood"? I use that song as an example, but I'm interested in overall opinions of CD series, labels, or mastering engineers for tracks of that vintage.

I ask because I listened critically to a few tracks on Time-Life's Your Hit Parade series, and I like what I hear. Bill Inglot's name is in the credits for the first 31 volumes of Your Hit Parade (but not the last nine). The YHP CDs in this time frame were released from 1988 to 1992.

On Your Hit Parade Vol. 22 1940 (1991), "In The Mood" sounds like a dub of a 78, without any attempt to remove ticks and pops, and no weird EQ or added noise reduction. It sounds like a record, which I find pleasing.

In contrast, on Time-Life's Big Bands Vol. 1 Glenn Miller (1991), the same song sounds muffled. Same with RCA's RCA Victor's Beginner's Guide To Jazz (1996) and RCA's Swing Greatest Hits (1996), both of which use the same analog transfer.

I'm curious to hear other people's opinions of what's out there for 1940s and 1950s-era pop. My gut instinct always veers toward Bill Inglot, and that seemed to work for this one track. Any other thoughts?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AdvprosD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2021 at 6:53pm
Since virtually all of this type of music is well beyond my generation, I didn't identify with the Hit Parade series much. Time Life also had a series that was sold concurrently with
the Hit Parade series, (At least for a while), called "The Swing Era." They didn't seek out all the original recordings for this series, though a few are original, IINM.
The inner notes described where they attempted to get better sounding recordings using as many of the still performing artists as possible. This series is my preferred one
due to having better sounding recordings than was possible for for the Hit Parade series and the old 78s and shellacs, etc.

I'm not 100% sure if the content of this series on CD is a transfer of material from an earlier Time-Life series of the same name that was issued on vinyl. I do have discs
from both the vinyl and CD series, along with some of the album sized booklets that described what was on the vinyl copies.

In CD form, all of this set is made in 2CD per issue form. Glenn Miller's "In The Mood" appears on Swingtime, disc #1. I'm not sure if Glenn is actually performing this or not.

Edited by AdvprosD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChicagoBill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2021 at 8:54pm
I think I have mentioned a couple times that I am not a big fan of Various Artist CD's. If I were to look for 'In The Mood' by Glenn Miller, I would grab Glenn
Miller 'Chattanooga Choo Choo, The #1 Hits', RCA 3102-2. Probably no one on the board has a big selection of Dance Bands or Swing music of the 30's or early
40's. I do notice that the CD was digitally mastered in 1991 and encompasses the CEDAR noise reduction process which most of us think of being abhorrent, but in
the case of music that is almost a hundred years old, it really doesn't sound as bad as you think, based on the limited fidelity we're talking about. As far as
'In The Mood', the best I've heard is the ERIC compilation, 'Iconic Pop Standards In Stereo' (ERIC 13606). Mark and Walt at Eric have done such a great job not
only separating instruments into stereo, but they have livened up the fidelity. I would think that the ERIC team had to use the RCA CD's as a starting point,
but I'm not certain. I'm not sure you are asking about this one song specifically, more like music of the 30's in general. As far as the fidelity of the 30's &
early 40's, it is what it is. -Bill.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChicagoBill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2021 at 9:36pm
Originally posted by crapfromthepast crapfromthepast wrote:



On Your Hit Parade Vol. 22 1940 (1991), "In The Mood" sounds like a dub of a 78, without any attempt to remove ticks and pops, and no weird EQ or added noise
reduction. It sounds like a record, which I find pleasing.
O.K., since my last post I actually listened to the above mentioned CD's. The RCA, which was mastered
in 1991 is probably the same digital transfer as 'Your Hit Parade Vol. 22' on Time-Life. I also listened to my 'Nipper's Greatest Hits of the 30's' (RCA-9972-2) and this
was re-mastered without the CEDAR's processing and it doesn't sound much better. Just a little echo added in. Nobody did anything to de-click them. I think there wasn't
decent software to de-click them in 1991. I purchased my first audio software from Steinberg in 1998. It was originally called 'Clean!'. Then they morphed it into 'Wave-
Lab' a few years later. So what I am saying is that anything mastered before, let's say, 1996, was not able to be de-clicked. Does that sound right? Today I am still using
Steinberg's 'Wave-Lab 10'. Anyone of us, with today's software, can make audio engineers of 1991 look pathetic. -Bill.                                                                                                                                                  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NightAire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2021 at 11:09pm
Do we not like CEDAR? The CEDAR-cleaned recordings I've heard have blown me away with their ability to clear away surface noise but leave room noise and the like intact.

I wish I had some input to offer on this song; there certainly have been a lot of TERRIBLE releases of hits from the 30s and 40s so I can understand the desire to find the "most true to the source" copy possible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aaronk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2021 at 6:43am
I think the CEDAR technology has probably come a long way since the early days, and of course the end result with any NR is very dependent on how heavily it's applied.

Regarding click removal, TM Century was doing this in the late '80s, so the technology was available. I don't recall if they used Sonic Solutions No Noise from the very beginning, or if they used something different the first few years between '87 and '89.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BSharp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2021 at 8:23am
As much as I can appreciate the Big Band Era, my 1970s-
era ears would rather hear a clean, note-perfect
recording of a big band song vs. an original version
dubbed from a 78-RPM record.

For that reason, it's hard to beat GRP's "In The Digital
Mood" album for all Glenn Miller songs. If I owned a
78-rpm jukebox, I'd probably feel differently about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2021 at 1:15pm
Originally posted by ChicagoBill ChicagoBill wrote:

Probably no one on the board has a big selection of Dance Bands or Swing music of the 30's or early 40's.


I do! I have tons. I'm probably the pre-rock-era "expert" on the board, but no one ever talks about anything prior to 1955, so I never have a chance to share any knowledge.

Originally posted by ChicagoBill ChicagoBill wrote:

So what I am saying is that anything mastered before, let's say, 1996, was not able to be de-clicked. Does that sound right?


No, CEDAR has been in use since at least 1990. The Columbia "16 Most Requested Songs" series uses CEDAR on many of its volumes.

"In the Mood" is one that I think largely uses the same digital transfer across many different CDs. To my ears, the best I've heard is on "The Essential Glenn Miller" from Columbia Legacy this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Essential-Glenn-Miller/dp/B0009POI0O/ ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=essential+glenn+miller&qid=1622 491395&sr=8-1

It strikes a good balance between noise reduction retaining brightness and details.

My favorite Glenn Miller comp used to be a different "Essential Glenn Miller," the one from House of Hits/RCA, and while they took a lot of loving care with that set, my opinion of what "sounds good" has changed in the past 20 years, and I think they overuse the noise reduction on the House of Hits set.



Edited by Brian W.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PopArchivist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2021 at 7:23pm
Originally posted by Brian W. Brian W. wrote:

I'm probably the pre-rock-era "expert" on the board, but no one ever talks about anything prior to 1955, so I never have a chance to share any knowledge.



That's because most people outside the Hit Parade and comp series that were put out don't have an interest in the era before 1955. When CD was first coming out those people who wanted the 1940's and early 1950's were only 35-45 years old and had disposable income for CD's.

Now that same age group is 75-85 and those kind of compilations don't see the light of day anymore on CD since they make nothing for the labels.

I'm probably the only other person on this board to collect 1900-1954 religiously and try to assemble each years listings. I expect to run into lots of problems and so-so sounding records. I even convinced Brian W to do the entire 1954 charts and not just limit it to the top 10.

As far as In The Mood goes I have many Glenn Miller comps, I have found the Essential one to be best sounding but that is my opinion. The Hit Parade Time Life put out in the late 80's are a great source for the 1940-1954 period. That's the great thing about Glenn Miller, Benny Goodman etc. Plenty of compilations and Greatest Hits to choose from. The quality transfer though could be better. Highly doubtful it will ever get the remastering treatment stuff gets now a days.

Favorite two expressions to live by on this board: "You can't download vinyl" and "Not everything is available on CD."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PopArchivist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2021 at 7:40pm
Originally posted by crapfromthepast crapfromthepast wrote:

Does anyone have any strong opinions regarding CD sources of 1940s and 1950s tracks, like "In The Mood"? I use that song as an example, but I'm interested in overall opinions of CD series, labels, or mastering engineers for tracks of that vintage.


I've personally sought an original digital recording that is snap, crackle and pop free. Sadly Ron, I think anything from the 1940's, especially the early part of the decade comes from 78 transfers. Don't take this the wrong way, but to my ears the further back you go, the worse the sound. Songs like Fresni and In The Mood should be plentiful but that does not mean they sound like they were mastered great.

Sad fact is the Time Life series is the ONLY place to find some of those 1940-1954 hits. Some are lost to time. I will say that I haven't tried Itunes, which often has some of this stuff better mastered then the CD's. The labels would rather upgrade the quality on there then release CD's no one is going to buy now. Just a suggestion.
Favorite two expressions to live by on this board: "You can't download vinyl" and "Not everything is available on CD."
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