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"Knock Three Times" - Dawn

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Yah Shure View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yah Shure Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2009 at 5:59pm
I listened very carefully to the mono 45 during that stretch, and there are no horns whatsoever. Could it be that the K-Tel track is a fold-down?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Indy500 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 June 2009 at 10:35pm
I hear what you're talking about now. The muted trumpet(?) that doubles the lead vocals remains on the mono version but the answering trombone(?) is not audible on the K-tel cd.

The answering trombone is missing from a similar passage from 2:12 to 2:22 as well.

Edited by Indy500
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Todd Ireland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2009 at 1:24pm
Originally posted by Bill Cahill Bill Cahill wrote:

Yes they are different mixes. On the stereo LP from 1:18 to 1:23 there are horns in one channel. On the single, those horns are completely mixed out. The single also runs at a faster pitch than the original LP version, but most CDs seem to be pitched up to be closer to the single's pitch.

The database shows some mono sources which might be the 45 mix, I don't have any of those to check. The mono 45 mix has been issued in Canada on the Club Z Collection, CD Club 701 "Solid Gold 70'Z".

I don't know if it's different enough to be a 45 "version" or a "45 mix". Then there's the discussion as to whether or not all stereo issues should read, "LP mix sped up to match 45 pitch".

I'll let the judges decide all of that.


I appreciate your analysis on this, Bill! Since the horns you speak of are completely mixed out of the 45 from 1:18-1:23, it looks to me like a 45/LP version distinction needs to be made for CD appearances of "Knock Three Times" in the database. I'd be interested to know if any of the song's mono CD entries consist of the correct 45 mix, or if they're simply fold-downs of the stereo LP version.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Indy500 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2009 at 2:26pm
The mono K-Tel CD I have is a different mix than a fold-down of the stereo version I tried.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Todd Ireland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2009 at 2:39pm
Hmmm, that's odd, Indy500... I guess the mix on the K-Tel CD would fall under the "neither the 45 nor LP version" category.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crapfromthepast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 December 2018 at 10:14pm
Stereo LP version

I can trace most of the CD masterings to three distinct analog transfers.

The first is on Rhino's Billboard Top R&R Hits 1971 (1989). The sound is good overall, but there's a disturbing lack of hiss and lack of presence in the early portion of the fade - noise reduction, perhaps? The same analog transfer is used on:
  • Priority's Seventies Greatest Rock Hits Vol. 9 #1 Hits (1991) - too loud and clips; avoid
  • Time-Life's Superhits Vol. 10 1971 (1991) - has L/R channels reversed and fades a little early; avoid
  • Time-Life's AM Gold Vol. 6 1971 RE-1 (1991) - has L/R channels reversed and fades a little early; avoid
  • Time-Life's 2-CD Singers And Songwriters Vol. 16 1969-1972 (2001) - has L/R channels reversed and fades a little early; avoid
  • Time-Life's 2-CD Seventies Music Explosion Vol. 3 Miracles (2005) - has L/R channels reversed and fades a little early; avoid
The second is on Rhino's Best Of (1994). This is an improvement over Billboard. Here, it keeps the same EQ tone to the end of the fade, so there's no evidence of noise reduction. The same analog transfer is used on:
  • Varese Sarabande's Bubblegum Classics Vol. 1 (1995)
  • Razor & Tie's 2-CD Suddenly '70s (1997)
  • Razor & Tie's 2-CD Viva Las Vegas (1997)
  • Razor & Tie's 6-CD 70 Number One Hits Of The 70s Vol. 1 (1998)
  • Varese Sarabande's 25 All-Time Greatest Bubblegum Hits (2000)
  • Razor & Tie's 1-CD Suddenly '70s (2001)
  • Madacy's Vintage Pop (2005) - too loud and clips a lot; avoid
  • Reader's Digest's 4-CD Time In A Bottle (2006)
Finally, two outliers use a third analog transfer, different from the above two. They don't sound nearly as good as Best Of:
  • BR Music Holland's 3-CD Definite 70's Vol. 3 (1997)
  • EMI Australia's 5-CD Seventies Complete Vol. 2 (1999)
My recommendation for the stereo LP version: Rhino's Best Of (1994)

Mono 45 version

Your odds of finding the mono 45 version on CD are slim. I have it on exactly one CD: Heartland/Warner Special Products' 2-CD Feel Good Rock (1989). Sound quality is so-so. It's mono, but the balance is a little off. The left and right channels may be a tiny bit out of synch - hard to tell. EQ is a little thin.

I noticed that in Aaron's library, he used only the left channel of Feel Good Rock, copied it to the right channel, boosted the levels by about 4 dB and adjusted the EQ. It's an improvement.

Edited by crapfromthepast
There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one Crap From The Past.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PopArchivist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 December 2018 at 11:15pm
This is one of the cases where the mono is completely forgotten about even though that is what was released in 1971 when it came out. The mono releases of the 1970 and 1971 Billboard hits are clearly overshadowed by their stereo counterparts, which is all anyone knows these days.

You are right about the hiss in the stereo versions as you noted above. I often found it very distracting on what was one of my favorite early 70's tracks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KentT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 December 2018 at 5:53pm
I have the UK Bell/EMI 45. It too is mono.
I turn up the good and turn down the bad!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AdvprosD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2022 at 4:48pm
I think I might have heard the 45 version for the first time in quite a long while. I double checked the source against the database, and it actually was the 45 version in mono.

I was outside the board talking to Aaron about a collection of Sony CDs called Super Hits of the 70's and some odd stuff I heard. The discussion was actually about this being
one of the earliest collections I can recall that was sold as a 5 disc 100-song collection. Later, I dug up another set that was only 60 songs on 4 discs. The database lists it
as "Sony Music Commercial Music Group 778234 Hits Of The 70's (Box Set) (45 version)." Since it was the 45 version, I decided to rip it to the PC.

I'm deviating away from Tony Orlando here to note that there may be a whole lot of 45 versions on this set, (The 60 song set.) The 100 song set seems to be mostly album versions.

I'm kind-of glad I picked this set up because there is a lot of material here that I need to dig into a bit to see just how many 45 versions are on this.
<Dave> Someone please tell I-Heart Radio that St. Louis is not known as The Loo!
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