The Vogues At CO and CE Complete Singles
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Topic: The Vogues At CO and CE Complete Singles
Posted By: eriejwg
Subject: The Vogues At CO and CE Complete Singles
Date Posted: 04 March 2023 at 5:39pm
Has anyone determined if this collection finally contains
the true 45 version of Five O'Clock World?
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John Gallagher
Erie, PA
https://www.johngallagher.com" rel="nofollow - John Gallagher Wedding & Special Event Entertainment / Snapblast Photo Booth
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Replies:
Posted By: TomDiehl1
Date Posted: 04 March 2023 at 10:28pm
If it doesn't, it's really close.
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Live in stereo.
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Posted By: bitman
Date Posted: 05 March 2023 at 5:07pm
Some tracks are in stereo, so some tracks definitely not original, at least as they were released on 45
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Posted By: VWestlife
Date Posted: 06 March 2023 at 4:19pm
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I have a wide stereo version of "Five O'Clock World" that doesn't seem to match anything listed in the database. It has the vocals in the left channel and the instruments in the right channel, with nothing in the middle. It is clearly a legitimate two-track recording, not DES or mono-with-overdubs, and aside from the stereo separation and lack of reverb, it matches the original, so it's not a re-recording.
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Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 06 March 2023 at 4:26pm
The CD Totally Oldies Vol. 2 (2001) on Varese Sarabande has the version you described.
It originated on CD on Varese Sarabande's Discoveries Presents Stereo Oldies (1999), according to the notes on that disc.
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There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past .
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Posted By: eriejwg
Date Posted: 06 March 2023 at 7:02pm
Ron, have you had a chance to listen to Five O'Clock World
on the new singles collection. I agree with Tom Diehl that
it sure sounds close to the true 45 mix. Maybe they finally
got it right.
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John Gallagher
Erie, PA
https://www.johngallagher.com" rel="nofollow - John Gallagher Wedding & Special Event Entertainment / Snapblast Photo Booth
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Posted By: davidclark
Date Posted: 06 March 2023 at 8:23pm
I'm not the best at comparing reverb, but I do believe the reverb is correct. I
compared it to a 45 dub MM did back in December 2018 that sounds perfect.
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dc1
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Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 06 March 2023 at 9:32pm
I'm not sure how to label the various versions out there, so I'll improvise.
Fake stereo version (2:06)
I'm not sure where this appeared originally, but its first appearance on CD is on Rhino's Vogues Greatest Hits (1988). It sounds nice here (to the extent that any fake stereo can sound nice), with great dynamic range, nice EQ, low-generation source tapes, and no evidence of noise reduction on the fade. The same analog transfer is used on:- Rhino's Vogues 3-inch CD (1988)
- Time-Life's Classic Rock Vol. 13 1966 Shakin' All Over (1989) - fade is about two beats shorter
- Time-Life's Superhits Vol. 12 The Mid-'60s (1991)
- Cema's 2-CD Mystic Music Presents Groovin' (1992)
- Rhino's cheapie '60s Rock Classics Vol. 1 (1994)
- Time-Life's AM Gold Vol. 5 The Mid-'60s (1995) - is just a repackaging of the Superhits CD
- Heartland/Warner Special Products' 2-CD Hooked On A Feeling (1995) - left/right channels swapped and fade is about two beats shorter
- Simitar's Number Ones: Hot In The '60s (1998)
Non-hit 1969 Greatest Hits LP version (mono with added stereo instrumentation) (2:18)
Edit: David C tipped me off that this version was from the 1969 GH album, and was likely put together to make the song sound like the Vogues of 1968.
I recall a CD version of "Tequila" that also had added stereo instrumentation; that must have been a thing at one point.
I found a YouTube video of this version with surface crackle and a needle-donk at the beginning. I believe that this version might have been on a 1971 stereo reissue of the Five O'Clock World vinyl LP on Pickwick/33 Records, but can't confirm with 100% certainty.
I have this version on Warner Special Products' More Party Classics (1987). A different analog transfer appears on Time-Life's 2-CD AM Gold Last Train To Clarksville (2021), with its left/right channels swapped. Both of these have their fades truncated at the same point.
Super-wide stereo version (2:08)
I don't know where this track originated, but it showed up on CD first on Varese Sarabande's Discoveries Presents Stereo Oldies (1999). I have it on Varese Sarabande's Then 2 Totally Oldies (2001). It sounds fine, but it's the instruments in one ear and vocals in the other extreme-wide stereo. I suspect that it was recorded this way on the multi-tracks (much like the early Beatles), to allow the producer to balance the vocals with the backing track. It likely wasn't intended to be heard this way as stereo.
Mono version, very little reverb (2:07)
It's on Silver Eagle's 2-CD Rockin' Down The Block (1987). The EQ is a little bass-shy, and the whole track sounds a little distant.
Mono version, whole lotta reverb (2:06)
It's on the Omnivore Vogues collection At Co & Ce - The Complete Singles & More (2023).
Based on a YouTube video of the 45 playing, I'd say that it's probably the 45 mix (same amount of reverb). I welcome second opinions, though, because I'm not great at this type of comparison.
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There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past .
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Posted By: Paul C
Date Posted: 07 March 2023 at 3:34pm
The song has reverb on the Ace UK disc The London
American Label 1966, but I don't have a 45 to compare
it with.
https://www.acerecords.co.uk/the-london-american-label-
year-by-year-1966
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Posted By: TallPaulInKy
Date Posted: 07 March 2023 at 5:55pm
The good news, it's great to have this new issue of The
Vogues material from their period at Co&Ce.
Now the bad news, instead of starting as a new project,
the producers started with the commonly available Varèse
Sarabande – VSD-5680, "You're The One - The Very Best Of
(The Co & Ce Sessions)" and added the missing singles
tracks as needed.
The Singles section is basically the As and Bs issued on
Co&Ce but the producers took three stereo remixes from
the aforementioned Varèse Sarabande disk to replace the
mono singles mixes in "the Singles" section.
The "And More" bonus tracks all come from the
aforementioned Varèse Sarabande disk. By my count 15 of
the 23 tracks on this new release, are duplicates from
there.
The sound quality is great so if you do not already have
the Varèse Sarabande, it's a great add to your music
library. I just wish they had added more previously
unreleased songs rather than repeating so many previously
out there.
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Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 07 March 2023 at 6:04pm
That is interesting information Paul. I know Cary Mansfield worked on both CD releases. Does this mean the version of "Five O'Clock World" on this new release is exactly the same as the one on that Varese Sarabande release?
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Santi Paradoa
Miami, Florida
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Posted By: crapfromthepast
Date Posted: 07 March 2023 at 7:42pm
No, "Five O'Clock World" is different on the two releases.
The 1996 seems to have less reverb than The Complete Singles & More (2023). Plus, it's mastered too loud and clips a bit, and fades earlier than the 2023 release.
The 2023 release has a some headroom so it doesn't clip, and starts its fade much later. Plus, it has more reverb than the 1996 release. The two versions don't stay in synch, so one is not a manipulated version of the other.
Quite different, fortunately.
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There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one http://www.crapfromthepast.com" rel="nofollow - Crap From The Past .
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Posted By: Santi Paradoa
Date Posted: 07 March 2023 at 8:06pm
That is good news Ron. Thanks for the analysis.
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Santi Paradoa
Miami, Florida
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Posted By: MMathews
Date Posted: 09 March 2023 at 4:03pm
I just did a sync-check on this new release against a 45
dub. I can verify for certain that this is the true 45
version. Reverb and fade are an exact match. The pitch is
ever-so-slightly different but not enough to bother about.
And to my ears it is from tape, not vinyl.
MM
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