Stereo 45 version vs. stereo remix

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   Pat:

I was reading over your recent review of The Motown Box set (Motown B0004999) and it left me wondering something I've never really been completely clear about.  I know most, if not all, of the Motown commercial 45s released during the '60s were pressed in mono.  So how do you determine when a stereo remix of a mono 45 can still be considered the "45 version" or "hit version", and when it should be classified as a "remix"?  For example, on The Motown Box you list the Contours' "Do You Love Me" with the comment: (first time stereo mix of the hit version), but many of the other songs on the box set are simply listed as: (remixed).  Does the "remixed" comment in these cases indicate different instrumentation is used or added, or does it simply denote a very different mix of the original vocals and instruments? I'm interested in knowing your policy on this so I can better discern the difference between a stereo 45 version and a stereo remix.

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Todd Ireland Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Music Fan Joined: 16 October 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 18	Post Options Post Reply Quote Todd Ireland Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Stereo 45 version vs. stereo remix Posted: 31 August 2005 at 7:44am
	Pat: I was reading over your recent review of The Motown Box set (Motown B0004999) and it left me wondering something I've never really been completely clear about. I know most, if not all, of the Motown commercial 45s released during the '60s were pressed in mono. So how do you determine when a stereo remix of a mono 45 can still be considered the "45 version" or "hit version", and when it should be classified as a "remix"? For example, on The Motown Box you list the Contours' "Do You Love Me" with the comment: (first time stereo mix of the hit version), but many of the other songs on the box set are simply listed as: (remixed). Does the "remixed" comment in these cases indicate different instrumentation is used or added, or does it simply denote a very different mix of the original vocals and instruments? I'm interested in knowing your policy on this so I can better discern the difference between a stereo 45 version and a stereo remix.

Moderator Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Joined: 10 July 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Moderator Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 September 2005 at 6:40am
	Todd, in the introduction to my book I define a remix as "either the instrumentation or vocals have been tampered with resulting in a sound that differs slightly from the original version". In the context of the Motown Box let me offer specific examples. Take the Four Tops "It's The Same Old Song" - the mix on this box narrows the stereo, removes the reverb that was formerly on the drums and brings the drums out much louder. This is a noticeable difference between the stereo mix that appeared on the Four Tops 2nd album and also the mono 45. In the case of the Four Tops "I Can't Help Myself" new background vocals were introduced (check out :58 to 1:04) that again were not present on either the orginal stereo mix or the 45. I also use the term remixed to denote that extra instrumentation has been added as is the case with the song "Ain't Too Proud To Beg" by the Temptations. So to answer your question, I go back to my original definition which covers both changes in instrumentation, addition of vocals or basic changes in the mix such as removal of reverb. As for the Contours "Do You Love Me", that song had previously been mixed to stereo but with an alternate vocal take so the mix on this box set in my opinion can be best described as "first time stereo mix of the hit version".
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EdisonLite Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Music Fan Joined: 18 October 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote EdisonLite Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 September 2005 at 8:45am
	Pat, in your Four Tops examples, you had previously released stereo versions (on the original LPs) to compare them to. What about mono 45s that never had an LP release or any form of a stereo mix from back in the day (but may exist in the vaults) -- if there are no obvious differences between a stereo CD version and the mono 45, like extra background vocals or lack of reverb, could that still be considered the 45 version, by your definition?

Pat Downey Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Joined: 01 October 2003 Status: Offline Points: 1	Post Options Post Reply Quote Pat Downey Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 September 2005 at 10:28am
	Yes, I would consider your example to be a 45 version.

EdisonLite Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Music Fan Joined: 18 October 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote EdisonLite Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 September 2005 at 1:40pm
	Thanks for clarifying that. And I agree -- I feel that should be considered the 45 version, too.

Todd Ireland Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Music Fan Joined: 16 October 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 18	Post Options Post Reply Quote Todd Ireland Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 September 2005 at 9:20am
	Thanks for clearing this up, Pat. Again, since most commercial 45s were pressed in mono back in the '60s, I wasn't sure if any stereo mix of these singles could technically be considered a remix, especially in the case of Motown recordings where new stereo mixes are produced with regularity. Your policy makes sense. Edited by Todd Ireland

BillCahill Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Music Fan Joined: 13 October 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote BillCahill Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 September 2005 at 7:23am
	This has probably been brought up before but the versions of Do You Love Me by the Contours, Since I Lost My Baby by the Temptations, and Shop Around by the Miracles are resynched stereo on that box which to me sounds bad and shouldn't be listed as a stereo version of the origninal hit. What the producers did since they didn't have the original vocal track in the clear was attempt to synch the original mono version with a stereo backing track that they found. This has been done on A Whiter Shade of Pale, I Only Wanna Be With You, He's So Fine, and other oldies where background sessions were found but the vocal sessions were missing. I feel this is a dubious practice and mixes poorly to mono. Plus you end up with phasing and other nasty artifacts since you can never get it exactly right. You end up doubling instruments which in itself changes the recording so it shouldn't be noted as the original. I think a notation for synchronized stereo is in order. That's my opinion anyway.