Dion - Runaround Sue

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   After comparing the mono mix with the stereo mix, I believe a notation should be made in the database for CDs with the mono mix that reads "mono LP and 45 version."  The stereo version is missing the slap back echo on the percussion/handclaps and lead vocal.  Instead, the stereo version has added reverb to the vocal and percussion.

The very first post on the board, made by Bob Lovely, talks about "The Wanderer" being "dry" on some stereo mixes and "wet" on others, and he says that the reverb was added during the mastering.  This makes sense for both "The Wanderer" and "Runaround Sue" because the vocal on the mono mix does not sound like reverb has been added.  Instead, the vocal has the tape/slapback echo that is missing from the stereo versions.

Edited by aaronk

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aaronk Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Joined: 16 January 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 123	Post Options Post Reply Quote aaronk Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Dion - Runaround Sue Posted: 20 August 2012 at 11:48pm
	After comparing the mono mix with the stereo mix, I believe a notation should be made in the database for CDs with the mono mix that reads "mono LP and 45 version." The stereo version is missing the slap back echo on the percussion/handclaps and lead vocal. Instead, the stereo version has added reverb to the vocal and percussion. The very first post on the board, made by Bob Lovely, talks about "The Wanderer" being "dry" on some stereo mixes and "wet" on others, and he says that the reverb was added during the mastering. This makes sense for both "The Wanderer" and "Runaround Sue" because the vocal on the mono mix does not sound like reverb has been added. Instead, the vocal has the tape/slapback echo that is missing from the stereo versions. Edited by aaronk
	Aaron Kannowski Uptown Sound 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop

eriejwg Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Music Fan Joined: 10 June 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 46	Post Options Post Reply Quote eriejwg Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 August 2012 at 6:38pm
	Is it possible some mono versions may be an earlier or alternate vocal take?

aaronk Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Joined: 16 January 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 123	Post Options Post Reply Quote aaronk Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 August 2012 at 7:26pm
	Anything is possible, but the mono and stereo mixes I have are the same vocal take.
	Aaron Kannowski Uptown Sound 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop

MMathews Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Music Fan Joined: 18 August 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote MMathews Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 August 2012 at 9:20pm
	Aaron, after i saw this i was curious because i hadn't heard the mono version of this since the early 80's... (and never looked back!) So i went to youtube and i must have played 5 or 6 different dubs of the 45...i must say i DO hear what you mean about the slap echo, but only on the hand-claps, and maaaybe the backing vocals (del-satins, i believe) but i do not hear echo on Dion. I hear standard reverb. Not disagreeing about a LP/45 version notation but i never recalled hearing slap echo on Dion himself. anyone else? MM

aaronk Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Joined: 16 January 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 123	Post Options Post Reply Quote aaronk Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 August 2012 at 11:01pm
	What I'm hearing (at least on my mono copy) is a very subtle slapback after the song kicks in. What I'm calling "slapback" is basically the entire vocal delayed by less than a half second and at a lower volume. I sent you my mono copy to hear the same copy I'm listening to. It's most noticeable on the "s" consonent (such as on the line at 0:54 "listen people what I'm telling you," the "s" in listen) and when the music stops during the line "keep away from runaround Sue." It's not just reverb; it's a vocal delay at a lower volume, which is what I'm calling slapback. Edited by aaronk
	Aaron Kannowski Uptown Sound 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop

MMathews Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Music Fan Joined: 18 August 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote MMathews Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 August 2012 at 1:37am
	Ok Aaron sent me a nice clear dub of his 45, and i DO hear the slap echo (aka tape-delay) on Dion's voice as well, it occurs during the body of the song, just not in the intro. Interestingly, you'd think you could sort of "create" a stereo 45 mix by adding some echo to the stereo mix, however i don't hear it on the Del-satins, only on Dion and the clapping. They come thru loud and clear without the echo.

aaronk Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Joined: 16 January 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 123	Post Options Post Reply Quote aaronk Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 August 2012 at 6:54am
	Ok, I'm glad I'm not crazy, Mark! I noticed that Pat has added the "45 and mono LP version" comment next to the appropriate CDs. How do you think the stereo mix ought to be labeled? It is my understanding that there were no stereo LP versions released in 1961. That would technically make all those CDs "remixed" or "neither" versions, right?
	Aaron Kannowski Uptown Sound 91.9 The Peak - Classic Hip Hop

MMathews Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Music Fan Joined: 18 August 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote MMathews Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 August 2012 at 10:42pm
	Well, since the stereo version did debut on an LP, i'd think "LP version" should still suffice. It just happens that the LP in question was later. I can't be sure, but i think it was a V/A Lp from 1968 called something "Laurie Golden Goodies" - i used to own it. I'm sure can expert can correct me on that. Otherwise, since the stereo mix is so prevalent, why not just put "45 version" next to a cd with it, and leave the others with no label. Does it really need one? Just a thought.

Todd Ireland Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Music Fan Joined: 16 October 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 23	Post Options Post Reply Quote Todd Ireland Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 August 2012 at 5:54pm
	I'm of the opinion that if the database is going to include "45 and mono LP version" comments for "Runaround Sue", then there really should a comment for the stereo mix since it technically can't be considered the "hit" version due to the reverb/echo differences. I would suggest maybe either adding a general comment underneath the song title stating something like: "The stereo version of this song is slightly remixed", or individually inserting a "slightly remixed" comment next to each stereo CD entry. Edited by Todd Ireland

davidclark Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Music Fan Joined: 17 November 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 24	Post Options Post Reply Quote davidclark Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 September 2012 at 10:36pm
	yes, Mark, according to the BSN website's extensive LP labels discography section, Runaround Sue was in true stereo on the 1967 LP "Laurie Golden Goodies". You have a great memory!
	dc1